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Unitary State - with provisos.

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby boulio » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:30 pm

i was reading a couple of days ago the following concernig the set of ideas and i like there security ananlysis with a bit of a twist i would also add in a cypriot contigent of mixed forces:

revised Treaty of Guarantee will come into force under which Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, and a number of additional countries will guarantee the security, territorial integrity and constitutional order of the federal republic.



An international force made up of contingents from the various guarantor powers (including, therefore, a Turkish contingent) will be stationed in an otherwise demilitarized Cyprus.



The international force will have powers (a) to ensure that no paramilitary organizations are formed and no arms are imported in Cyprus, except for arms for which there will be an agreement and which will be deemed necessary for the purposes of the police forces; and (b) to intervene on the basis of a decision by the guarantor powers taken by majority whenever the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus face threats either from the two communities or through the violation of the constitutional order.



This solution has the following advantages: (a) If there is any tension in Cyprus, this will not be exported to Greece and Turkey, which as a rule take the sides of their respective communities. (b) Great Britain will no longer be in the unenviable position of being in the middle and being accused by the two sides of not fulfilling its obligations under the Treaty of Guarantee. (c) Any intervention will be carried out by an international force which will actually be stationed in Cyprus, thereby preventing any issues about invasion, occupation, withdrawal of forces, etc., which complicate matters. (b) Greek and Turkish contingents will continue to be stationed in Cyprus, but they will form part of an international force, and so any involvement or suspicion or allegation concerning chauvinistic activities in their respective communities will be dealt with convincingly.

http://www.peace-cyprus.org/ACGTA/cypsol1.htm
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Postby B25 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:45 pm

boulio wrote:

revised Treaty of Guarantee will come into force under which Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, and a number of additional countries will guarantee the security, territorial integrity and constitutional order of the federal republic.


Boulio, I have great respect for you and your postings, but this, to me, is a non starter. It is because we had this, that Turkey is here today. Whats to stop the others from not intervening in case of trouble? We already have experience with this, its called The British!

We are a sovereign state, we do not want and guarantee rights from anyone. We are EU now so should not need them.

This is the only way to avoid giving invaders the excuse to invade again.

Sorry man, no can do.
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Postby wyoming cowboy » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:51 pm

boulio wrote:i was reading a couple of days ago the following concernig the set of ideas and i like there security ananlysis with a bit of a twist i would also add in a cypriot contigent of mixed forces:

revised Treaty of Guarantee will come into force under which Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, and a number of additional countries will guarantee the security, territorial integrity and constitutional order of the federal republic.



An international force made up of contingents from the various guarantor powers (including, therefore, a Turkish contingent) will be stationed in an otherwise demilitarized Cyprus.



The international force will have powers (a) to ensure that no paramilitary organizations are formed and no arms are imported in Cyprus, except for arms for which there will be an agreement and which will be deemed necessary for the purposes of the police forces; and (b) to intervene on the basis of a decision by the guarantor powers taken by majority whenever the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus face threats either from the two communities or through the violation of the constitutional order.



This solution has the following advantages: (a) If there is any tension in Cyprus, this will not be exported to Greece and Turkey, which as a rule take the sides of their respective communities. (b) Great Britain will no longer be in the unenviable position of being in the middle and being accused by the two sides of not fulfilling its obligations under the Treaty of Guarantee. (c) Any intervention will be carried out by an international force which will actually be stationed in Cyprus, thereby preventing any issues about invasion, occupation, withdrawal of forces, etc., which complicate matters. (b) Greek and Turkish contingents will continue to be stationed in Cyprus, but they will form part of an international force, and so any involvement or suspicion or allegation concerning chauvinistic activities in their respective communities will be dealt with convincingly.

http://www.peace-cyprus.org/ACGTA/cypsol1.htm


there wont be any tensions after a solution, because the usa and uk will be benefiting from a solution and to keep the peace, the only troubles in Cyprus in the past came from these two. Cyprus is not aspiring to be nonaligned these days but is wound up with the EU and possibly NATO
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:51 am

wyoming cowboy wrote:
boulio wrote:i was reading a couple of days ago the following concernig the set of ideas and i like there security ananlysis with a bit of a twist i would also add in a cypriot contigent of mixed forces:

revised Treaty of Guarantee will come into force under which Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, and a number of additional countries will guarantee the security, territorial integrity and constitutional order of the federal republic.



An international force made up of contingents from the various guarantor powers (including, therefore, a Turkish contingent) will be stationed in an otherwise demilitarized Cyprus.



The international force will have powers (a) to ensure that no paramilitary organizations are formed and no arms are imported in Cyprus, except for arms for which there will be an agreement and which will be deemed necessary for the purposes of the police forces; and (b) to intervene on the basis of a decision by the guarantor powers taken by majority whenever the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus face threats either from the two communities or through the violation of the constitutional order.



This solution has the following advantages: (a) If there is any tension in Cyprus, this will not be exported to Greece and Turkey, which as a rule take the sides of their respective communities. (b) Great Britain will no longer be in the unenviable position of being in the middle and being accused by the two sides of not fulfilling its obligations under the Treaty of Guarantee. (c) Any intervention will be carried out by an international force which will actually be stationed in Cyprus, thereby preventing any issues about invasion, occupation, withdrawal of forces, etc., which complicate matters. (b) Greek and Turkish contingents will continue to be stationed in Cyprus, but they will form part of an international force, and so any involvement or suspicion or allegation concerning chauvinistic activities in their respective communities will be dealt with convincingly.

http://www.peace-cyprus.org/ACGTA/cypsol1.htm


there wont be any tensions after a solution, because the usa and uk will be benefiting from a solution and to keep the peace, the only troubles in Cyprus in the past came from these two. Cyprus is not aspiring to be nonaligned these days but is wound up with the EU and possibly NATO


The RoC,known to TCs as 'The GC run part of Cyprus' will never be admited to NATO as long as Turkey is a member,and as long as it is run solely by the GCs....And since the likes of B25 will never accept any safeguards for the TCs and since the TCs will never agree to a solution without safeguards,never the twine shall meet,me thinks... :(
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Postby boulio » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:31 am

accept any safeguards for the TCs


can you please give us some safeguards that t/c want?i gave a security appartus that i believe would and should be acceptable to both communities. can you tell us some safeguards that would be acceptable to both communites?
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Postby wyoming cowboy » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:40 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
wyoming cowboy wrote:
boulio wrote:i was reading a couple of days ago the following concernig the set of ideas and i like there security ananlysis with a bit of a twist i would also add in a cypriot contigent of mixed forces:

revised Treaty of Guarantee will come into force under which Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, and a number of additional countries will guarantee the security, territorial integrity and constitutional order of the federal republic.



An international force made up of contingents from the various guarantor powers (including, therefore, a Turkish contingent) will be stationed in an otherwise demilitarized Cyprus.



The international force will have powers (a) to ensure that no paramilitary organizations are formed and no arms are imported in Cyprus, except for arms for which there will be an agreement and which will be deemed necessary for the purposes of the police forces; and (b) to intervene on the basis of a decision by the guarantor powers taken by majority whenever the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus face threats either from the two communities or through the violation of the constitutional order.



This solution has the following advantages: (a) If there is any tension in Cyprus, this will not be exported to Greece and Turkey, which as a rule take the sides of their respective communities. (b) Great Britain will no longer be in the unenviable position of being in the middle and being accused by the two sides of not fulfilling its obligations under the Treaty of Guarantee. (c) Any intervention will be carried out by an international force which will actually be stationed in Cyprus, thereby preventing any issues about invasion, occupation, withdrawal of forces, etc., which complicate matters. (b) Greek and Turkish contingents will continue to be stationed in Cyprus, but they will form part of an international force, and so any involvement or suspicion or allegation concerning chauvinistic activities in their respective communities will be dealt with convincingly.

http://www.peace-cyprus.org/ACGTA/cypsol1.htm


there wont be any tensions after a solution, because the usa and uk will be benefiting from a solution and to keep the peace, the only troubles in Cyprus in the past came from these two. Cyprus is not aspiring to be nonaligned these days but is wound up with the EU and possibly NATO


The RoC,known to TCs as 'The GC run part of Cyprus' will never be admited to NATO as long as Turkey is a member,and as long as it is run solely by the GCs....And since the likes of B25 will never accept any safeguards for the TCs and since the TCs will never agree to a solution without safeguards,never the twine shall meet,me thinks... :(


The basis of the troubles in the 60's was because of imperialist wanting to instigate these troubles for the cold war and geopolitical conflicts. whats the interest of these same imperialist of instigating troubles in Cyprus after a solution......and Cyprus being in Nato, will make Cyprus a strategic partner instead of a thorn in their side
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:05 am

boulio wrote:
accept any safeguards for the TCs


can you please give us some safeguards that t/c want?i gave a security appartus that i believe would and should be acceptable to both communities. can you tell us some safeguards that would be acceptable to both communites?


boulio,safeguards are important to the TCs because of what happened the last time we had an agreement...That agreement did not fail because there were safeguards for the TCs...If failed largely because the GC leadership at the time had no intention of making it work,and every intention of driving the TCs out of power,in order to advance the cause of ENOSIS with Greece...If you do not accept and appreciate this fact you will never understand why the TCs insist on safeguarding their political and personal security!

Two primary safeguards are needed...One to guarantee their political power gained under the agreement will not be watered down in time...And two,their personal safety will never be compromised...If there is goodwill,an agreement can be found to satisfy both sides...
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:15 am

wyoming cowboy wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
wyoming cowboy wrote:
boulio wrote:i was reading a couple of days ago the following concernig the set of ideas and i like there security ananlysis with a bit of a twist i would also add in a cypriot contigent of mixed forces:

revised Treaty of Guarantee will come into force under which Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, and a number of additional countries will guarantee the security, territorial integrity and constitutional order of the federal republic.



An international force made up of contingents from the various guarantor powers (including, therefore, a Turkish contingent) will be stationed in an otherwise demilitarized Cyprus.



The international force will have powers (a) to ensure that no paramilitary organizations are formed and no arms are imported in Cyprus, except for arms for which there will be an agreement and which will be deemed necessary for the purposes of the police forces; and (b) to intervene on the basis of a decision by the guarantor powers taken by majority whenever the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus face threats either from the two communities or through the violation of the constitutional order.



This solution has the following advantages: (a) If there is any tension in Cyprus, this will not be exported to Greece and Turkey, which as a rule take the sides of their respective communities. (b) Great Britain will no longer be in the unenviable position of being in the middle and being accused by the two sides of not fulfilling its obligations under the Treaty of Guarantee. (c) Any intervention will be carried out by an international force which will actually be stationed in Cyprus, thereby preventing any issues about invasion, occupation, withdrawal of forces, etc., which complicate matters. (b) Greek and Turkish contingents will continue to be stationed in Cyprus, but they will form part of an international force, and so any involvement or suspicion or allegation concerning chauvinistic activities in their respective communities will be dealt with convincingly.

http://www.peace-cyprus.org/ACGTA/cypsol1.htm


there wont be any tensions after a solution, because the usa and uk will be benefiting from a solution and to keep the peace, the only troubles in Cyprus in the past came from these two. Cyprus is not aspiring to be nonaligned these days but is wound up with the EU and possibly NATO


The RoC,known to TCs as 'The GC run part of Cyprus' will never be admited to NATO as long as Turkey is a member,and as long as it is run solely by the GCs....And since the likes of B25 will never accept any safeguards for the TCs and since the TCs will never agree to a solution without safeguards,never the twine shall meet,me thinks... :(


The basis of the troubles in the 60's was because of imperialist wanting to instigate these troubles for the cold war and geopolitical conflicts. whats the interest of these same imperialist of instigating troubles in Cyprus after a solution......and Cyprus being in Nato, will make Cyprus a strategic partner instead of a thorn in their side


WC...Whatever the imperialists intentions (and I am not denying they had their own agendas) we had an agreement to establish an independent republic...We made a mess of it...Unless we take our responsibilities seriously and accept our share of the blame,and make sure the new agreement is watertight,we cannot expect it to succeed...We must stop blaming others and be prepared to pay the price for our past mistakes...No other way is going to get us there!
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Postby Yolcu » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:45 pm

BirKibrisli - I have been reading your latest threads and what you are saying is logical and sensible. As I have said in the past, there is certainly enough blame to go around for all the bad things that have happened on Cyprus since the early 50s. The agendas of the outside parties from those times were shaped by forces that have now evolved into something completely different.

There is hope and opportunity for Cypriots to have a safe and independent nation. I also believe that the UK would turn over the SBAs if it would mean the successful forming of Independent Cyprus for the Cypriots. The SBAs are a cold war relic and the thinking people in the upper echelons of NATO know this. However, this does not mean that every military officer in the US Pentagon, MOD UK and NATO are in agreement. It just means that some of them recognize that now is the time to re-think priorities.

One only needs to look at the newly formed independent nations of the past 22 years to see what is in the art of the possible.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:47 am

Yolcu wrote:BirKibrisli - I have been reading your latest threads and what you are saying is logical and sensible. As I have said in the past, there is certainly enough blame to go around for all the bad things that have happened on Cyprus since the early 50s. The agendas of the outside parties from those times were shaped by forces that have now evolved into something completely different.

There is hope and opportunity for Cypriots to have a safe and independent nation. I also believe that the UK would turn over the SBAs if it would mean the successful forming of Independent Cyprus for the Cypriots. The SBAs are a cold war relic and the thinking people in the upper echelons of NATO know this. However, this does not mean that every military officer in the US Pentagon, MOD UK and NATO are in agreement. It just means that some of them recognize that now is the time to re-think priorities.

One only needs to look at the newly formed independent nations of the past 22 years to see what is in the art of the possible.


Thanks for that response,Yolcu...

If only we could leave everything else out and apply logic and sensibility to our little problem,the solution would not be too far away...So far this eluded us...And it seems it might keep eluding us for a while longer..The old geopolitical factors might have changed but now we have new ones to worry about...It is becoming obvious why the likes of Medyev,Merkel,and Sarkozy have shown renewed interest in Cyprus...The natural gas reserves around the place...This means the new imperialists would once again work hard to get the best possible outcome for themselves ,and stuff what is in the best interest of the people of Cyprus.. :(
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