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Todays situation and the only possible solution

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Todays situation and the only possible solution

Postby insan » Sat May 15, 2004 8:55 pm

Todays situation is a fruit of our past my friends... It won't be possible to unite Cypriots then Cyprus unless all alleagations of our past not interrogated and bring to a joint acceptable conclusion... Justice and truths which would give us unity, lay behind the facts of the past...


A new unitary state which will be based on two communities population ratio and human rights.

The first step of the new unitary state must be reanalysation of the facts between 1931 till present time.

The second step must be the interrogation and prosecution of the facts of 1962-2004 period. All illegal actions according to 60s treaties and international law must be interrogated and prosecuted. All allegations regarding the crimes and criminals of 1962-2004 period must be interrogated and prosecuted...

The third step of the new unitary state must be the foundation of the new constitution and its laws.


In the final step at least a hundred bi-communal projects must be made to make two communities reapproach, contribute and build their common future together..


We all know that only a new unitary state will be a satisfactory, just solution for both communities... And a new unitary state will be possible if the above mentioned steps have been taken...
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Postby PEACE » Sat May 15, 2004 10:52 pm

A new unitary state which will be based on two communities population ratio and human rights.


This is less rights than we have in Republic of Cyprus.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Sun May 16, 2004 1:42 pm

You are a puppet of the politicians Peace. You keep on chewing the gum the politicians gave you.Yes your Political rights will be less, but why should they be 18% and not 30%? Can you understand the exact reason? Which of the 2 will provide a stable political life 18% political rights for the 18% population, or 50% political rights for the 18% population? What do you think will assure you a good life, a 50-50 sharing of the Political power? Or the EQUAL INDIVIDUAL rights for every citizen with 100% security on your HUMAN RIGHTS inside a United Cyprus (Federal or Unitary) inside the EU?
Did the 30% Political rights of the 60s, gave you or your family, any benefit? Did they secure you any individual human rights?
So think again what sort of rights will bring stability and security to you as a person, and to your community as a group, and then talk.Do not just chew the gums given to you by the politicians.

Besides if you think about it, the Anan Plan was not rejected by the GCs because for the political rights your community was getting. 9 out of 10 of those 76% GCs who voted NO was because of their INDIVIDUAL HUMAN RIGHTS violations.

I also support a Unitary State.The Federal State is just a dragon that will always suck money from your and our pockets to feed greedy politicians and un-necessary lazy Government employees, doing the same job 3 times.Cyprus is too small to be Federal.It is too costly.Bizonality CAN exist inside a Unitary State!!! It is practically impossible after a solution to have a situation that the TCs will not be a majority in the North.They will continue be the majority, as a fact of life, either we end up to a Federal state or a Unitary.So why not choose Unitary, and save money for the poor members of our society, and for building more schools for our childern, and more hospitals for our sick, and more social benefits for our unfortunate members of the society?

1)How can a Unitary state be formed from the situation we are today? VERY SIMPLE.Just unite all the Ministries of Republic of Cyprus and Trnc.And all the employees.Each Ministry will have 2 divisions GC Division and TC Division. 18% Ministers TCs, 18% Pariament members TCs, plus securities in the Constitution for the specific concerns of the TCs.
2)How can Bizonality be secured? By the above procedure.
3)How can the TCs be a majority in the North if all GCs will be allowed to return? Answer:because it is a fact of life that it is VERY VERY difficult for anyone to change his current place of living.Even if allowed not even 10% GC refugees will return, not even 10% TCs will return.
4)What happens to the properties? ANSWER: Every refugee GC or TC takes ALL his properties back.
5)what will they do with their properties?ANSWER: whatever everybody does with his properties when he does not want to use them, or when facts of life do not enable him to return and use them, i.e Sell them, rent them,exchange them, or burn them. He,he,he… yes some stupid GC and TC nationalists and racists will burn their properties rather than sell, or rent them to "dirty dogs"…

PS. About your own ps "peace in Cyprus is prevented by Greek Cypriots.(24 April 2004) "
WRONG!!
Peace in Cyprus was prevented in 24 April 2004 because the Turkish Cypriots wanted the surrender of the Greek Cypriots and the sacrifice of their HUMAN RIGHTS.
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Postby PEACE » Sun May 16, 2004 3:28 pm

First of all your solution style is impossible and beyond Republic Of Cyprus.

There are international agreements that a solution will be in federal style!
In 1977 federal solution is accepted by both community leader !

Also think about who accepts 18% rights because of GCs said NO to Annan Plan !

After accepting 18% rights who guarantee that we'll live in peace,security and happiness?

Today's situation don't let even a solution with Republic Of Cyprus and you are talking me about a solution beyond RC!

Think about settelers that became like a cypriot.You can't send back a person who lived here for 30-20 years ! They will say NO firstly to your solution !These people are around 40.000 !



1)How can a Unitary state be formed from the situation we are today? VERY SIMPLE

It's not simple ! What about the law that each part accepted !? Such as Asia Minor Law ! What will we do this type of laws?

Also if we unite this two our rights won't be up from %18?



)How can the TCs be a majority in the North if all GCs will be allowed to return? Answer:because it is a fact of life that it is VERY VERY difficult for anyone to change his current place of living.


At first yes ! But everythink don't stay like in first day! Think about after 10 years ! :roll:

4)What happens to the properties? ANSWER: Every refugee GC or TC takes ALL his properties back.


Q:What will TCs who are staying in GC properties now? They will send to street immediately? No no let me guess...They will send to their properties in South which they are RUINED or NATIONALIZED.This is good if they got a property ! If not? Like settelers that are living here for 30-20 years?

Turkish Cypriots wanted the surrender of the Greek Cypriots and the sacrifice of their HUMAN RIGHTS.


No,this was Annan Plan and UN prepared it ! Not TCs! So according to UN it was a BALANCED solution! You are the one who say that its not.
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Postby PEACE » Sun May 16, 2004 3:32 pm

It seems you have to stop chewing the gum of your politicans too.Cos this thoughts was the most extremist ones that i have ever heard! :roll: :evil:

You are a puppet of the politicians Peace. You keep on chewing the gum the politicians gave you.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon May 17, 2004 1:51 pm

Peace, or "Demander for Surrender",


You said
First of all your solution style is impossible and beyond Republic Of Cyprus.
I say:
So what? This is my honest opinion.Do you want to hear lies?Listen to your and our politicians.

You said
Also think about who accepts 18% rights because of GCs said NO to Annan Plan !
I say:
The other choice is to accept the instability and eventual collapse of a state based on 50-50.If this is what you want, then go ahead alone.Our answer is still OXI.

You said
After accepting 18% rights who guarantee that we'll live in peace,security and happiness?
I say:
The guarantee is your 100% individual rights and your 18% Political rights inside a stable state inside the EU.The alternative is to stay with the political rights and the individual rights you currently have at the pseudostate, under the Control of the Turkish army and the settlers.And the next alternative an unstable state of 50-50 which will collapse within a few months.

You said
Think about settelers that became like a cypriot.You can't send back a person who lived here for 30-20 years ! They will say NO firstly to your solution !These people are around 40.000 !
I say:
Settlement is an international crime and the ones responsible for it MUST pay all costs involved.All settlers must leave the Country because we NEVER approved their stay.And turkey must pay full compensation to each and everyone of them to start a new life back to Anatolia.For all those who don't want to go, Turkey must pay TRIPLE compensation to the new Cyprus state so that we settle them properly ourselves, plus compensation to the owners of houses and lands the settlers are using,plus compensation for the social troubles they will cause us, plus compensation for educating them and their children to bring them upto an acceptable social level.

You said
How can a Unitary state be formed from the situation we are today? VERY SIMPLE
It's not simple ! What about the law that each part accepted !? Such as Asia Minor Law ! What will we do this type of laws?
I say:
You can make a simple thing complicated, if you start asking silly questions.Well here is another simple answer.Do the 9000 pages of laws inside the Anan Plan ring a bell to you?

You said
Also if we unite this two our rights won't be up from %18?
I say:
Not the Political rights.These are fixed positions in the Government bodies that make Political decisions.And remember I only talked for the first step towards unification.The next step is to limit the area of your administration to 18% as well.


You said
How can the TCs be a majority in the North if all GCs will be allowed to return? Answer:because it is a fact of life that it is VERY VERY difficult for anyone to change his current place of living.
At first yes ! But everythink don't stay like in first day! Think about after 10 years !
I say:
No, YOU think.What will change in 10 years? The only thing is that many Cypriots would have already sold/exchanged their properties, so less would even have any reason to return.But anyway lets assume they do return and your percentage "gets spoiled".What is your problem, don't you like seeing GC faces in the morning? What’s more important for you,to be a majority in your neighborhood, or to live well and earn a good living?Remember that 10 peaceful and happy years already passed from day 1 of the solution. And you were and still are ruling your area fine, and you have your exact 18% area control, and 18% people in the Government decision taking bodies. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM, will the GC faces eat you?

You said
What will TCs who are staying in GC properties now? They will send to street immediately? No no let me guess...They will send to their properties in South which they are RUINED or NATIONALIZED.This is good if they got a property ! If not? Like settelers that are living here for 30-20 years?
I say:
So your sugestion is that the GCs MUST donate you and the settlers their properties??? Keep dreaming…. EU will soon wake you up.
Besides who said anything about throwing anyone in the streets? Using a property and owning a property, are 2 completely different things.The user has user rights and the owner owner rights like those of a lodger.Nobody can throw anyone in the streets if he fulfils his obligations as a user.I already said, RENT,EXHANGE, SELL. Does this answer your question better?
And another thing.You should have builted your houses with bricks and cement NOT with earth and straws so that they would not turn into ruins by themselves after you abandoned them.And you should have not razed our houses to the ground, to avoid having settlers for neighbours.And nothing was Nationalised in the free areas.Go read Law No 139/91 of the Cyprus Republic and law No 159(4) of your pseudostate to understand who nationalised what.

You said
No,this was Annan Plan and UN prepared it ! Not TCs! So according to UN it was a BALANCED solution! You are the one who say that its not.
I say:
Not the UN as a whole.Just Cofi Anan and his gang acting as a puppet of the Americans and as a puppet of Turkey.And he got the answer he deserved from half a million people. 500,000 TIMES OXI.

You said
It seems you have to stop chewing the gum of your politicans too.Cos this thoughts was the most extremist ones that i have ever heard!
I say:
What??? You must be joking.Tell me which politician am I repeating here. Keep on chewing your gum, it will do you good.

PS.If you think the new United Cyprus has ANY chance to function with discounts on the human rights of the GCs, or with super inflated Political rights for the TCs on the expense of the GCs, you should think twice.A feeling of unjustice against the GCs, will act like a boomerang against you, and the situation will be worse than what was in the 60s.Is this what you want?
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Postby PEACE » Fri May 21, 2004 6:19 pm

Dear MicAtCyp,
Thanks for you cos of saying what you think without hesitating.

Thanks for being honest ! On the other hand its impossible to agree with you.Sorry...

You said
Also think about who accepts 18% rights because of GCs said NO to Annan Plan !
I say:
The other choice is to accept the instability and eventual collapse of a state based on 50-50.If this is what you want, then go ahead alone.Our answer is still OXI.


Annan Plan was establishing a stable order.You mean if we take more than 18% rights you will attempt to decrease them.Its better for you to say NO.We didn't forget 1963-1974 period and after 1974...

After we accept 18% rights a stable order will be build up? :roll: :lol:
Tcs will give and give and accept minority rights for "your" stable order style?

I know another stable order that there won't be any problem! Do you want to learn? Two seperate sovereign state !If you say me extremist things be sure you'll be replied with extremist thoughts! Two seperate sovereign state was the thing that i never thought before !I found your offer so unrealistic that i offered this unrealistic idea! :roll:


You said
After accepting 18% rights who guarantee that we'll live in peace,security and happiness?
I say:
The guarantee is your 100% individual rights and your 18% Political rights inside a stable state inside the EU.

I'm sure we'll have! :roll: :roll: Like Turk minority in Greece !
:roll:

I'm not trusting you after your attempt to join to Greece and ethnically clean us from Cyprus.May be you want to clean still! :roll:

Settlement is an international crime and the ones responsible for it MUST pay all costs involved.All settlers must leave the Country because we NEVER approved their stay.

Important one is human rights of that people also! Do you think that human rights are only for Greek Cypriots?



You can make a simple thing complicated, if you start asking silly questions.Well here is another simple answer.Do the 9000 pages of laws inside the Anan Plan ring a bell to you?

No,i didn't make simple things complicated ! They are complicated and i bring this front !My queations became silly cos you couldn't replied that "silly" questions thats why! :roll:

Yes,Annan Plan has 9.000 pages and its examined by negotators and by lawyers.Of course we can't read them! One question! Do you know what is there in 9.000 pages as yourself?


No, YOU think.What will change in 10 years? The only thing is that many Cypriots would have already sold/exchanged their properties, so less would even have any reason to return


If TRNC and RC will unite why they should sell ? :roll: You have to understand that TRNC and RC can't unite cos they are 180 degrees opposite ! If you accept RC than you can't accept TRNC and if you accept TRNC you can talk about RC !



WHAT IS THE PROBLEM, will the GC faces eat you?

No,you are welcome !The problem is your leader's politic way and behaviour of you to us ! Other one is minority rights subject!



So your sugestion is that the GCs MUST donate you and the settlers their properties??? Keep dreaming…. EU will soon wake you up.

No,you will get 1/3 and for others compensation!

And you should have not razed our houses to the ground, to avoid having settlers for neighbours.And nothing was Nationalised in the free areas.Go read Law No 139/91 of the Cyprus Republic and law No 159(4) of your pseudostate to understand who nationalised what.

Yes they nationalized !Your houses are there and noone is ruined them! Just people are living in it !

Go read Law No 139/91 of the Cyprus Republic and law No 159(4) of your pseudostate to understand who nationalised what.

Is it in Turkish too? I don't suppose ! You made Republic Of Cyprus a Greek Administration ! You are not translating your law to Turkish! Also street names etc ! You are telling that Republic Of Cyprus is representing whole cypriots to the world but we know that its like a small Hellenic state!
Keep saying lies to world! It won't continue like this forewer ! You have to know!



Not the UN as a whole.Just Cofi Anan and his gang acting as a puppet of the Americans and as a puppet of Turkey.

Its easy to say these when it didn't contained your thoughts! You are not world!





What??? You must be joking.Tell me which politician am I repeating here

Any extremist politican can say these !



A feeling of unjustice against the GCs, will act like a boomerang against you, and the situation will be worse than what was in the 60s.Is this what you want?

What are you trying to? You are trying to show me Denktas is right?

And i suggest you to remember 1974 after you tried to ethnically clean Turkish Cypriots from this island to annex Cyprus to Greece!An adding;I never approved Turkey's illegal actions here after the intervention!

There is "democracy" ! Majority can do everthing ! :roll: If majority wants to annex Cyprus to Greece it will be annexed when we think in your way! :roll:
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