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YES or NO to Annan's plan?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

If Annan's plan for Cyprus settlement remains unchanged what would you vote in the referendum?

YES. I accept the plan
7
54%
NO. I do not accept the plan
6
46%
 
Total votes : 13

YES or NO to Annan's plan?

Postby Aris » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:05 am

What do you think about the peace plan put forward by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan? Can we accept such a plan? What will the consequences be if we don't?

Annan plan for Cyprus settlement - Full text
Map 1
Map 2
Main points of the plan (in Greek)
Solve Cyprus, And Be Rescued - Turkishpress
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Postby Marios1 » Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:10 am

I will probably vote "no" except if politicians convince me for the opposite until the referendum day.
The plan is worst than the current situation, and I would dare to say worst than agreeing to have 2 separate countries. Why? For these reasons:
1)We give part of Cyprus to Turkey. Sure, the plan prohibits any of the 2 states to break away, but why do we think that Turks will respect their signature this time? They have already proved that are not very trustworthy. And if they break away, who will stop them? UN and the big powers proved that they are not willing to do such thing. So after a couple of years, Turks will create some problems and then they will decide that they can not live with as and break away. This time it will not be one country invading another. It will be a state that decided to leave from the federation, and Turks will finally manage to have what they always wanted. If Russian federation has so huge troubles to keep Chechnya as part of their federation, if Spain has such a problem keeping the Basques, what make us think that we will manage to keep the Turks if they decide to leave?? Therefore this solution is no better than 2 separate states, but is even worst than that because of the next reasons:
2) Turks will be able to veto almost everything, and the central government will not be able to function correctly.
3)Turks will try to create problems (so they will get the excuse that they want) and we will have much less security than now, maybe even a war at some point.
4)We will have to pay higher taxes to help the Turkish settlers to achieve high standards of living.

The good parts of Annan's plan are the following: We get some land back, some refugees will be able to go to their homes, the rest will get a refund for the land that they lost, we will not have big problems to enter the EU. Nothing else!!.

Our politicians that until a few days ago kept saying that we will accept nothing less of all refuges going to their homes, all settlers to leave, all Turkish troops to leave etc etc, now decided that those things can not be achieved and that they were just giving as crap to get our votes all these years. If this is the case then why not just accept 2 separate countries? This way we will probably manage to get some more land back than Annan's plan, more refugees will go back (in reality, and not just on paper) Turks will get what they want and they will stop creating problems, we will get all the EU money to develop our country and they will became the nice poor Islamic undemocratic little country that they always wanted. They will live good and we will live way better.
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Postby Vertical » Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:45 am

I will not vote for this plan, except if they improve its functionality significantly. The foreigners want to just "close" the problem as soon as possible. They don't care how Cypriots will be affected and how our country will function. We don't want a solution that will make us rich, neither one that will hurt Turkish Cypriots. We want a solution that respects the human rights and the European standards. Is that too much to ask for?
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Postby Papas » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:38 am

For the plan as is today i say a huge NO.
There is no chance that this plan will change, therefore I will keep saying NO.
What does it mean that at the referendum we will vote for both Annan's plan and the EU with a single yes or no for both??? Fuck that !! NOBODY can enforce as to do such thing. We vote NO for the plan, and YES for the EU.
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Postby michalis5354 » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:53 am

There is another option that is missed:

The solution based on a new version of the Anan Plan that will be agreed by both parties and after significant improvements had been implemented ( functionality , financial aspects , security).

Even Papadopoulos has accepted the plan for further improvements! SO If a new plan comes with improvements then I will say Yes!
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Postby Aris » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:23 pm

michalis5354 wrote:There is another option that is missed:

The solution based on a new version of the Anan Plan that will be agreed by both parties and after significant improvements had been implemented ( functionality , financial aspects , security).

Even Papadopoulos has accepted the plan for further improvements! SO If a new plan comes with improvements then I will say Yes!


Sure, this would be a much better solution. But what one side considers an improvement might be considered negetive by the other side.

What are the things that both sides can consider as improvements?

The only one I can think is that settlers should leave. Thats in the best interest of both greek and turkish cypriots. But since turkish cypriot political parties need the votes of these setlers I don't see this improvement happening either.
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Postby michalis5354 » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:46 pm

Improvements can be seen as a trade off between various principles . When you change the trade off , this doesn not mean that you change the balance of the plan. Are there improvements that make both sides more satisfied ? Then If this is the case then One can not see the reason why these improvements on the plan should not been made.

One can not see the whole plan in a short perspective short vision and only one side , But can see the plan Overall and especially on the long term perspective. Thats it!

All issues should be viewed on the long term scale, with flexibility and open mindness!

About the turksih citizens there are might various options for them. I do not agree wirth the extreme views .Some may be disatisfied and would prefer the option to return back upon their own consent . Some other may agree to return back upon compensation thats another option . Some others may be accepeted by Greekcypriots and stay here why not , These people also can contribute to Cyprus welfare. What is the problem if a number of them stay? I dont see any problem as long as the functionality of the plan is not affected!

This issue can be treated with much flexibility and not with short vision.

The Plan can be changed only with open mindness , flexibility and long trem vision!
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Postby Aris » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:44 pm

I agree that there can be trade offs in some minor issues, but what about the major ones?

For me the main problem with Anan's plan is that it borders with confederation. What we want is federation.

The difference is that the central goverment should be the strong one, not the governments of the 2 states. And this central government should be democratically elected by all cypriots. If the constitution is one that will allow the 18% minority to block decisions of the majority, then this is not democratic. (and not viable)

Personally I have no problem with T/C having their own state , handling their own education, taxes, development, and even their own police like in the US each state has its own police (but there is also FBI that is the police of the central state and it is above the rest)

For me Anan's plan has a big problem. That creates a country with an undemocratic constitution. This is not a simple thing that can be solved with trade offs.
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