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A NEW UNITARY STATE WILL BE THE FAIREST SOLUTION

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

A NEW UNITARY STATE WILL BE THE FAIREST SOLUTION

Postby insan » Sat May 22, 2004 5:50 pm

A unitary state which will be based on two communities population ratio is the fairest solution imo... The GC community doesn't have to give us more than %20. Giving more than what our population percentage means violation of their rights.

This was one of the main reasons of 1963-67 period intercommunal violance. Turkish side had confessed it in 1971 and agreed that TCs communal rights in common state must be decreased to %20. Please go www.cyprus-conflict.net and read Denktash-Klerides letters.



Having %20 participation in common state don't make TCs a minority like Maronites, Latins and Armenians or TCs who live all around the world because we are not a minority; we are a numerical minority that its population is sufficient to be one of the constituents of a unitary or a federative common state.

Does %20 power in common parliament put TCs in danger? I don't think so because even the most evil-minded GC can't do anything that violates the laws of common state and international laws as some of them did in 1963-74 period.

Furthermore I believe that majority of the GCs are humane, modern and democratic who I'm sure would stand on the rightful side. In this age and in an EU country noone can terrorize people to obey their rules as some of the extremist of both sides did to innocent Cypriots in 50s and onwards...




Sharing the land:

GCs claim that private land belongs to TCs is approx. %13-15 out of total land but TCs claim that the land belong to TCs is %33 out of total land... No agreement has been reached regarding this issue till now... They should work on this issue and bring it to a conclusion.


Settlers issue: A census must be made on both sides and allegations regarding the number of the foreigners which had been given citizenship of RoC/TRNC in 1963-2004 bring to a light. Both parties rights to give citizenships must be based on the same numbers. Or if there is a law in 60s treaties regarding it must be fit with it. All others must be sent back to their countries.(Does anyone know if there's a law in 60s treaties regarding the citizenship rights?) All refuges must be free to get their properties back and decide what to do with it. They can either settle down to it or sell, rent.






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Postby Piratis » Sat May 22, 2004 6:52 pm

Such solution would be the most fair for everybody.

Unfortunately it seems that most TC do not think like you. Also, it seems that you depend too much on settlers and Turkey.

How can anybody saying the things that you do gain power in the north to implement them? If such a person (group/party) starts becoming popular Turkey will destroy it. Also when settlers vote, such party has no chance of winning.

Maybe the only way is if all Cypriots start demanding all their personal rights in courts.
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Postby metecyp » Sat May 22, 2004 10:56 pm

insan,

What you're proposing is nothing new. This is what the right wing GC parties has been demanding all these years, and this is what they hope to achieve through EU. As you can realize on your own, what you proposed is even less than the Republic of Cyprus. I can assure you that no TC will ever accept a solution that gives less than the Republic of Cyprus. This is not because TCs are greedy, but simply because the Republic of Cyprus could not ensure TC representation, and we don't want to be isolated from the decision process for another 40 years. We want something that will guarantee that our voices will be listened. I know GC people are civilized people and I'm pretty sure that the events of the past won't repeat in a European Cyprus. However, many GCs stil consider TCs as mere minority both in numbers and in political terms, and that's one of the reason why Annan plan was rejected.

Right now, there are two possible solutions. One is the Annan plan which will eventually be back on the table in one form or another. And the other solution is going back to the Republic of Cyprus which is not likely (but possible). Annan plan might be changed in favor of GCs but the general structure of the plan won't change.

So let's stop wasting our time in talking about imaginery solutions and talk about how we can change the Annan plan to satisfy both sides, or let's talk about if we can go back to the Republic of Cyprus, and how.
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Postby insan » Sun May 23, 2004 7:21 am

metecyp wrote:

So let's stop wasting our time in talking about imaginery solutions and talk about how we can change the Annan plan to satisfy both sides, or let's talk about if we can go back to the Republic of Cyprus, and how.



metecyp,

I like "wasting" my time on "imaginery" solutions, if you don't like please you don't waste your time things like this...

CTP, BDH and DP stressed many times that renegotiating of Annan Plan means rewarding those who said no. They clearly pointed out that they wouldn't accept any amendments on Annan Plan.


We can go back to the RoC by accepting %20.


-[/quote]
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Postby PEACE » Sun May 23, 2004 12:22 pm

Dear insan,
A solution behind Republic Of Cyprus is an imaginary solution !

Our rights in Republic Of Cyprus are already gained with international agreements! These rights are our lawful gained rights ! I don't suppose that more than 1% of Turkish Cypriots will say "yes".Even Şener Levent is talking about returning to Republic Of Cyprus! :shock: If there will be a solution it won't be beyond RC ! Be sure ! :roll: The most compromised solution for Turkish Cypriots is returning to RC! This seems already impossible also! Lets wait and see..!
Last edited by PEACE on Sun May 23, 2004 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Piratis » Sun May 23, 2004 1:07 pm

Some TC some weeks ago asked from us to vote for the Annan plan and they said that this would be the first step and that this "transitional period" as they called it was needed because our communities lived apart for long and we couldn't mix them together now.

The answer to this finally comes from PEACE:

Our rights in Republic Of Cyprus are already gained with international agreements! These rights are our lawful gained rights !


I hope nobody ever again will come and tell us the joke that agreeing for Annan plan would be a "first step" or "transitional period".

Back to the topic:

Metecyp, more rights do not guarantee more security and stability. If an 18% shares the 50% of power (1% population = 2.77% power) and the 78% shares the rest 50% (1% population = 0.64% power) then the democratic rights of this 78% are oppressed. It should be expected that this 78% will not accept to be oppressed forever and it will revolt sooner than later.
The more power you get, the less we get.
Of course this might not bother you. For example dictators take the whole power for themselves. But the system I want to live in is democracy, and nothing less.
If you think about it more carefully you will see that democracy and human rights for everybody is what guarantees security.
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Postby PEACE » Sun May 23, 2004 1:21 pm

Some TC some weeks ago asked from us to vote for the Annan plan and they said that this would be the first step and that this "transitional period" as they called it was needed because our communities lived apart for long and we couldn't mix them together now.

The answer to this finally comes from PEACE:

Quote:
Our rights in Republic Of Cyprus are already gained with international agreements! These rights are our lawful gained rights !


I hope nobody ever again will come and tell us the joke that agreeing for Annan plan would be a "first step" or "transitional period".


Piratis,what i want to mean is that a solution behind RC won't happen!Because our rights in Republic Of Cyprus are already GAINED ! They are base rights of us! Noone can get them from us! So the a solution that TCs will get least rights will be RC ! There is no base less than this!


So a solution that we'll have 20% or 18% rights is an IMAGINARY solution!
A unitary solution is an IMAGINARY solution also! Cos federal solution is accepted in 1977 and this is a decided thing with international agreements!


These never mean that we won't work for a federal solution that contains bi-zonality and bi-communality! Also there will be extra rights that will protect our Turkish Cypriot identity which will protect us from someone's(?) domination ! :wink:
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Postby Piratis » Sun May 23, 2004 1:27 pm

PEACE, thanks for helping me passing my point.

I hope now it is clear to everybody how most TC think and nobody will come to us with jokes again.
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Postby metecyp » Sun May 23, 2004 4:27 pm

I hope nobody ever again will come and tell us the joke that agreeing for Annan plan would be a "first step" or "transitional period".

You're mixing apples and oranges here. Yes, Annan plan could have become a first step in the process and gradually we could get rid of the settlement restrictions, property restrictions and so on. Most of the parts of the plan will be obsolete when we reach to the level where the president's ethnicity doesn't matter. And there's only one way of reach to that point, living together peacefuly for a while.

Now, I guess for you the transitional period should end up with a unitary state where there is pure democracy and no protection for TCs. This is NOT going to happen, and no TC on this forum said this would happen anyway. The federal structure won't be replaced with a unitary structure. What CAN happen is for example according to the plan, in the senate there should be 24 TCs and 24 GCs. This could be changed to say 24 members from the north state and 24 members from the south.

In other words, as we live together, as being a Turkish or Greek matters less than being a Cypriot, then we can get rid of the ethnicity barriers in the plan. But again this doesn't mean that the federal structure will be replaced by a unitary state.

You don't sign a plan that you hope that it would totally be changed. That was the big mistake of 1960. GCs signed the agreements for the Republic of Cyprus hoping that they could change them for Enosis later, and then we had 1963 incidents and the mess we're in today. So maybe you did us a favor by saying a strong NO to something that you don't want, rather than saying YES and going through the same mistakes again.
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Postby metecyp » Sun May 23, 2004 4:34 pm

insan wrote:CTP, BDH and DP stressed many times that renegotiating of Annan Plan means rewarding those who said no. They clearly pointed out that they wouldn't accept any amendments on Annan Plan.

So? Does this mean that we have to accept to a unitary state with no protections whatsoever? And how did you come up with this idea and why do you think TCs might accept such a solution if you claim that your solution is not imaginary?

As I said before, two things might happen. First, the Annan plan might be back on the table (no matter what CTP, BDH and DP says) and it'll be further negotiated. Second, the Annan lan does not come back, and we (TCs) are faced with two choices, continuation of the current situation, or return back to Republic of Cyprus.

I find it hard to believe that TCs will agree to go back to Republic of Cyprus. That's why I'm more surprised how you believe that your solution (which is worse than the RC) can be accepted by TCs.
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