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What's Your Comment On These Claims?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:21 pm

Calls upon all parties to continue to cooperate fully with the United Nations Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus, which may be strengthened if necessary;

Requests the Secretary-General to continue to lend his good offices to the parties concerned


That is what have been being done for more than 40 years... All UN resolutions basically contains the same thoughts...

Why there hasn't been just a single UN resolution which defines Turkey as an occupier?


The sources of the quotations are not important piratis.


If there are something that you believe is not true, hadn't happened; tell us the truth and what had happened according to you or your version of history.

But you can't do that because your version of history skipped all of the facts that reveal the truths.

I really would be very happy to hear how those facts I refered above have been told to you...

Feel free to take quotations from your history books or internet sources... I've made a deep research but couldn't find any...





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Postby Piratis » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:48 pm

That is what have been being done for more than 40 years...

1)That resolution is 30 years old, not 40
2)It shouldn't last for 40 years:
Urges the speedy withdrawal of all foreign armed forces and foreign military presence and personnel from the Republic of Cyprus and the cessation of all foreign interference in its affairs;


But now I know how you create your quotes. Your above quote from the resolution showed this. You just cut and paste the parts that suit you.

I can go in other forums and just copy paste 1000s of lines of quotes and proofs that other people posted. It is very easy you know. But I will not.

The quotes war is useless. There is no point to it. What we have is the future. Do you want to cooperate and compromise to find a fair and democratic solution that will truly reunite Cyprus? Lets talk about that.
You don't want? Then talking about the past will solve nothing. We will let our politicians to play their games, and time to have its effect and wait and see what will happen.

Even if we assume that I am 100% wrong about the past and I am totally clueless (which is not the case) I will never accept to live in a non democratic country where my human rights are not fully respected.

So even if you bring me a quote that will say that GCs 40 years ago murdered 1 billion of TCs, that will not make me want democracy or my human rights less.
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Postby insan » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:09 pm

1)That resolution is 30 years old, not 40


There are also 40 years old of UN resolutions because UN presence in Cyprus had been started in 1964...


2)It shouldn't last for 40 years:


All UN resolutions about Cyprus problem is just a copy of each others...




Urges the speedy withdrawal of all foreign armed forces and foreign military presence and personnel from the Republic of Cyprus and the cessation of all foreign interference in its affairs


Were those which had been granted by treaty of alliance agreements included?

And Turkey cleraly declared that when a just, safe and viable solution was reached she would withdrow her her forces other than permitted with the treaty of alliance..


But now I know how you create your quotes. Your above quote from the resolution showed this. You just cut and paste the parts that suit you.


I didn't cut and paste parts that suits my needs... It was a reply to mehmets points. I emphasize it again... Is there something distorted in them.. If there's something distorted, untrue or false; tell us what are they...

And you too feel free to copy and paste from any sources you like...

I can go in other forums and just copy paste 1000s of lines of quotes and proofs that other people posted. It is very easy you know. But I will not.


This is irrelevant with the issue we discuss here... but if you like go take your quotations from there...

The quotes war is useless. There is no point to it. What we have is the future. Do you want to cooperate and compromise to find a fair and democratic solution that will truly reunite Cyprus? Lets talk about that.
You don't want? Then talking about the past will solve nothing. We will let our politicians to play their games, and time to have its effect and wait and see what will happen.



Cyprus problem is a s whole... I contributed, put forward my views either related her past, present or future... I can't put myself a restriction not to talk about Cyprus past...



Even if we assume that I am 100% wrong about the past and I am totally clueless (which is not the case) I will never accept to live in a non democratic country where my human rights are not fully respected.



TCs too will never accept to live in a non democratic country where their human rights will be only in treaties but not be respected by the "majority". We don't want any other "democratic" Akritas plans.




So even if you bring me a quote that will say that GCs 40 years ago murdered 1 billion of TCs, that will not make me want democracy or my human rights less.


No one asked you to give up your rightful demands... I put forward my points of view regarding some important issues for both communities; settlers, foreign troops presence, proportional representation etc... if you don't like talk about past, just skip the parts related past and tell me what you think about those related to the present and future of Cyprus. But you prefered to skip the parts related present and future and talking about the past... Ain't it a bit incohorent?



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Postby mehmet » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:29 pm

[quote="insan"]Mehmet,

Nothing would had been like you said... EOKA-B continued massacre TCs in Limassol, Paphos, Alaminos, Maratha, Sandalaris and Atlilar even after 24th of July when Sampson was arrested and Klerides appointed as a new president of RoC.

Insan, please re-read what I wrote. The Turkish army stayed and I might have lost members of my family if they didn't. As it was some of them had to escape from their mixed village as a precaution.

Piratis, when something happen to your family it is not history or propoganda, to remember it is not to live in the past. Tragedies happen to people of all communities and you can't expect people who have lost homes and members of their families to agree anything that maks them think history will repeat itself.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:55 am

you can't expect people who have lost homes and members of their families to agree anything that maks them think history will repeat itself.


I agree. But a "solution" that is undemocratic, unfair, that will not respect human rights is exactly what will create the same problems again.

Also, I am sorry about your family, but we had also such families, 10x the number of yours. Did you expect from as to just sit and watch the invasion without reaction? The invasion is a very violent thing with many innocents as victims, when somebody sees his family killed and his home occupied is hard for this person to keep calm and react reasonably.
For example many innocent not armed Americans have been killed in Iraq. Such actions are of course very bad. But when the Americans occupy their country and kill several of them every day then it is easy to see why the Iraqis are so mad and can not keep calm.

So lets stop using the EXCUSES over and over to justify what can not be justified. If you want an excuse to do something you will find it.
The excuses can be very bad, like the excuse the Americans gave to invade Iraq the second time, or can be better ones, like the excuse Turkey gave to invade Cyprus. Still, they are all excuses, and you have to look beyond them to find the root of the problem.

The root of the problem in Cyprus that creates all other problems is this:

Cyprus is in a very strategic place and all regional and world powers would like to control it.
The british had it under control, until 1960, but when they saw that the great majority of Cypriots didn't want them and fought against them, they applied their well known (from other countries) "divide and rule" policies. They spited the people between Greeks and Turks and they put us to fight each other.
Turkey always wanted to control Cyprus since the time they lost it to the British. Because Britain was very powerful, they couldn't achieve anything while Cyprus was still under the Brits. But when the Brits saw that they couldn't keep Cyprus under full control, they brought Turkey back in, as a part of their "divide and rule" policy.
The British created an independence plan for us, that would create the Republic of Cyprus. Within this plan their interests where secured: They maintained huge sovereign military bases, and their divide and rule policy was in place: They gave a lot of extra rights to a minority, so the majority will not feel good about it and therefore everything would be fragile. They also gave intervention rights to Greece and Turkey.
As it was planed, the majority had problems to accept the disproportional rights that were given to a minority and conflicts started. In 1974 the military that controlled Greece (and was controlled by the Americans) decided to create a coup in Cyprus with the help of some Greek Cypriot traitors. Turkey took the chance she was waiting for to invade Cyprus and she did it. Not to protect TC, that was the excuse, but to occupy Cyprus for the own strategic reasons.

So its all the fault of foreigners, you might ask. No, we have faults too. Our biggest one is that we left those foreigners to manipulate us. We left them create hate between us, and then we left the decide the solution for our own country.

If we want to solve the Cyprus problem we should unite as Cypriots. If we are united we can create a country that serves our interests and not the interests of others. We should be able to see beyond the excuses and strike directly where the real reasons are.
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Postby insan » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:22 am

The root of the problem in Cyprus that creates all other problems is this:

Cyprus is in a very strategic place and all regional and world powers would like to control it.
The british had it under control, until 1960, but when they saw that the great majority of Cypriots didn't want them and fought against them, they applied their well known (from other countries) "divide and rule" policies. They spited the people between Greeks and Turks and they put us to fight each other.
Turkey always wanted to control Cyprus since the time they lost it to the British. Because Britain was very powerful, they couldn't achieve anything while Cyprus was still under the Brits. But when the Brits saw that they couldn't keep Cyprus under full control, they brought Turkey back in, as a part of their "divide and rule" policy.
The British created an independence plan for us, that would create the Republic of Cyprus. Within this plan their interests where secured: They maintained huge sovereign military bases, and their divide and rule policy was in place: They gave a lot of extra rights to a minority, so the majority will not feel good about it and therefore everything would be fragile. They also gave intervention rights to Greece and Turkey.
As it was planed, the majority had problems to accept the disproportional rights that were given to a minority and conflicts started. In 1974 the military that controlled Greece (and was controlled by the Americans) decided to create a coup in Cyprus with the help of some Greek Cypriot traitors. Turkey took the chance she was waiting for to invade Cyprus and she did it. Not to protect TC, that was the excuse, but to occupy Cyprus for the own strategic reasons.

So its all the fault of foreigners, you might ask. No, we have faults too. Our biggest one is that we left those foreigners to manipulate us. We left them create hate between us, and then we left the decide the solution for our own country.




Well done Piratis... You haven't refered just a single word about Enosis which is the start point of Cyprus problem. Was it a foreign idea or an idea which had been created by Greek and GC fascists and strongly supported by overwhelming majority of G. Cypriots. TCs were already against Enosis....


In Cyprus history there's nothing more divisive than Enosis idea and the illegal action had been done in order to achieve it. Enosis idea divided two communities in 30s and 40s.


So, ain't it normal for TCs taking their sides by Brits and struggle against Enosists.

What had Brits done to divide us when we were already divided by Enosis idea of fascists?












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Postby insan » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:29 am

If we want to solve the Cyprus problem we should unite as Cypriots. If we are united we can create a country that serves our interests and not the interests of others. We should be able to see beyond the excuses and strike directly where the real reasons are.



The truths show us the right way to go... Solidarity helps us to overcome our common problems... and honesty makes the unity last forever...


Ps: Piratis have you any TC friends btw?





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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:35 pm

Well done Piratis... You haven't refered just a single word about Enosis which is the start point of Cyprus problem.


Do you know what "Enosis" means in Greek? It means Union.
Do you know about the European Union?
Do you know that in many of those countries percentages way more than 18% voted against union with the EU?
Do you know that many people in many of EU countries (e.g. UK) would like their country not to be in the EU?
Still, the above people accepted the will of the majority.

You are less than 1/5th and still you want to be able to veto every decision taken because you have the power of Turkey behind you.

The same way that we are Europeans and we wanted to join EU, we are Greeks and some years ago we wanted to join with Greece instead of being under occupation by others. Why does that makes us fascists???

You can say that you wouldn't like to join with Greece yourself, like many in Poland for example wouldn't like their country to join the EU. But simply not agreeing with the majority does not give you the right to go against it.

So, if some GCs in the past violated your human rights or made anything else illegal then I agree with you that such actions are unacceptable and those criminals should have been punished.
But I do not accept your claims that the 78% of Greek Cypriots didn't had the right to fight against an occupation force and that they are fascists because they wanted to unite Cyprus with Greece.

Piratis have you any TC friends btw?

Most of my friends are from high school, and we didn't had any TCs there. I had some (not close) friends from Turkey in college.
Why you ask?
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Postby metecyp » Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:58 am

But I do not accept your claims that the 78% of Greek Cypriots didn't had the right to fight against an occupation force and that they are fascists because they wanted to unite Cyprus with Greece.

The problem here is not union with Greece or union with Turkey. The problem is the mentality of "I'm the majority, I can do whatever I can". See, union with Greece is out of the question right now (party because of the EU), but we still see the same "I'm the majority" mentality. That's the problem.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:10 am

Union with Greece was out of the question by the majority of Greek Cypriots for long long time already.

The problem is the mentality of "I'm the majority, I can do whatever I can".


As long as what the majority does respects the human rights of the minorities and is legal, then yes, thats the way it is, and its called democracy.

Have a look here:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/lg.html
and here:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/en.html
where it says Ethnic groups:

Russians in those Baltic countries are almost 30%. Does that mean that if these Russians didn't want their countries to enter the EU, but the majority of the population wanted, that Russia would have the right to intervene and prohibit those independent countries of doing what the majority of people decided?
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