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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby metecyp » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:30 am

I'm still waiting for an answer to what I said above.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:42 am

I'm still waiting for an answer to what I said above.

I guess Papadopoulos is not reading this forum :wink:

Personally found that the Annan plan was outrageous from number 1, and I supported that this thing can not be fixed.

Papadopoulos was not there when this plan was cooked, so he has no responsibility. The reasons that he continued negotiating it is probably just tactics reasons. Bad tactics in my opinion. Probably is the bad effect that the pressure of AKEL leaders had on him. AKEL is the biggest party in the government, Papadopoulos is not totally free to do whatever he wants.
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Postby metecyp » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:20 am

I guess Papadopoulos is not reading this forum

Thanks for clarifying that! I was waiting to hear from those forum members who regard Papadopoulos as a national hero.
Papadopoulos was not there when this plan was cooked, so he has no responsibility.

Yes he wasn't there when the plan was cooked but that doesn't mean that he has no responsibility. He has all the responsibility by publicly announcing that he accepted the philosophy of the plan and by negotiating the plan for months.
The reasons that he continued negotiating it is probably just tactics reasons. Bad tactics in my opinion. Probably is the bad effect that the pressure of AKEL leaders had on him. AKEL is the biggest party in the government, Papadopoulos is not totally free to do whatever he wants.

Tactical reasons? Tactics for what? To get into EU with no problems? If that's the case, now how do you want me to trust him when he says he wants the well-being of TCs as well? Is this how the president of Republic of Cyprus supposed to behave? And then you guys wonder why the TCs don't want to go back to the Republic of Cyprus.
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Postby michalis5354 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:22 pm

Cyprus joined the EU firstly because it satisfied all Copenhagen Criteria and secondly because it showed a desire to find a mutual acceptable solution to the problem and It was Denktash who had been blocking any attempt of settlement in the Past and not the GC side.
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Postby Bananiot » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:28 pm

That is true up to a point. If we want to be honest we would need to admit that the EU would never open the door for us with the problem unsolved. We managed to convinve Europe that it was Denktash that was the obstacle to lasting peace and sure enough, the world community applied the pressure on Denktash, not to capitulate, but in effect to be sidestepped. The American ambassador in Nicosia even did the unthinkable for a diplomat. He attended the anti-Denktash demonstrations in northern Nicosia. When Denktash bowed out, the international community realised that there was another Denktash on our side. Both of the them shed tears, both of them used every trick in the book to demonise the A plan. One of them succeded. But, Cyprus was already in the EU. We made a bargain and we did not stick to our word. I am afraid we will very soon shoulder the bill.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:42 pm

We entered the the EU because of Greece. The Greeks were clear that expansion could not be done without Cyprus. Thats how we entered even with the Cyprus problem unsolved.
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Postby Bananiot » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:06 pm

You may beleive what you want, whatever makes you happy but, it appears you can never take away the blindfolds and I fully understand you. Then you would be forced to face the real world. Oh yes, its much easier to live in wonderland, the world of fantasy. What a fairy tale! Greece blackmailed the EU to accept Cyprus, or else! Oh dear, can we have a serious conversation?
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Postby Piratis » Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:32 am

Oh dear, can we have a serious conversation?

With you apparently not.

"The Greek parliament has sent us the message that it cannot ratify expansion without Cyprus. There is the Helsinki (EU summit) decision, and we are just asking that decision be upheld," Papandreou told Ta Neanewspaper.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/cmnews/2 ... ws.html#01

No expansion without Cyprus, Athens says

The Greek government reiterated on Wednesday that the enlargement of the European Union would go ahead only if the Republic of Cyprus is included. Government spokesman Dimitris Reppas made the statement when asked by reporters to comment on reports that the current German presidency intended to obstruct Cyprus' course towards accession. Reppas stressed that Cyprus' accession prospects were completely unconnected with the island republic' ongoing political problem caused by Turkey's 1974 invasion and subsequent occupation of about one-third of Cypriot territory.


http://www.hri.org/news/greek/apeen/199 ... apeen.html

ND leader: EU expansion impossible without Cyprus
22/01/2002 23:14:16
Main opposition New Democracy (ND) leader Costas Karamanlis focused squarely on foreign policy issues during a Tuesday press conference in Athens organised by the Foreign Press Association (FPA), emphasising, that EU enlargement will be jeopardised if Cyprus is excluded from the next wave of expansion.

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/apeen/200 ... en.html#02

So either we are all living in wonderland except you, or (most probably) you are the one who is dreaming.
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:43 pm

Its quite clear that you do not have a clue as to how the EU functions. Let me tell you a true story.

A few years ago they were discussing a resolution and the decision had to be reached by midnight otherwise the whole thing would be scratched. It was 1 minute to midnight and they could not reach a unanimous decision. So, what did they do? They stopped the clock! And when the decision was finally taken 3 hours later, it was still 1 minute to midnight! That's how Europe functions and obviously it does not allow legalistic issues to hinder progress.

You referred to the Helsinki summit, in 1999. That was a masterpiece movement by Simitis and Papandreou who managed to literaly open the door of Europe to Cyprus but came under scathing attack by the "patriotic" forces in Cyprus and primarily by Papadopoulos. They were talking openly about a sell out (or treason, your favourite word). Obviously, hard bargaining was done behind the scenes, in order to secure the entry of Cyprus. The sceptics insisted that there was a "tale" to the agreement, a price to pay. The only concession Simitis made was that Greece and Cyprus will not be the part that will hinder the efforts that were about to begin for a united Cyprus to enter the EU. The rest is recent history ...

Greece could only veto the enlargement only if it had legal reasons, ie, if the EU went back on its word. There was no chance for this to happen because the EU is a serious organisation. So, it is quite obvious that whatever statements were made over the last years, were realy a politician's ploy to dampen internal and inter party politics. In other words, it would have been very foolish for Greece to veto something that was on course to happen after Greece had given the green light. And, Greece is at last, a very serious country now. All Greek politicians advised us to vote "yes" in the referendum but for you this does not mean very much; I suspect you probably think that they are all traitors. End of story.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:50 am

Its quite clear that you do not have a clue as to how the EU functions. Let me tell you a true story.

A few years ago they were discussing a resolution and the decision had to be reached by midnight otherwise the whole thing would be scratched. It was 1 minute to midnight and they could not reach a unanimous decision. So, what did they do? They stopped the clock! And when the decision was finally taken 3 hours later, it was still 1 minute to midnight! That's how Europe functions and obviously it does not allow legalistic issues to hinder progress.


:roll: WOW! I am amazed. How did you know this story?? You must be an expert on "EU functionality". I can't argue with you!! :roll:

So what is your conclusion? That EU people are idiots that based their decision to accept Cyprus on some vague behind the scenes promises?
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