Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

So, apart from a traitor and an idiot I am now a liar. I eagerly wait for your next civilised statement.

I am civilized with the civilized. As Papakonstantinou sings in one of his songs: "good with the good, bad with the bad, and with the cats a dog"

"I did not receive a state so that I can pass on a community", these were the last remarks of the sobbing address to the "Hellenic Greek Cypriots". If this is not a direct admission that he does not want federation then you are absoluteley righr. I am a liar! Perhaps you can give me one, just one sign, which may indicate that Papadopoulos has digested the idea of bizonal federation as the only solution to the Cyprus problem.

He already explained that quote and he said that while now there is a state (RC) if we accepted that plan, after it would collapse we would be left with just a community. And this is the truth.

Here is another quote from his speech:

We still accept a bizonal, bicommunal federation, but this version of the Plan was not.

Do you want anything more direct than that?

Is it not a joke to propose that the side that lost the war and 40% of its territory should go into negotiations looking for maximum gains, hoping for the best? Are youn really serious?

And according to you the invader should be the one who should have the gains? We do not actually ask for any gains. We just ask for what rightfully and legally belongs to us and nothing more than that.

It beats me. It is really beyond my understanding. We behave as though we have in front of us 100 different types of solutions (like a buffet) and simply we just have to choose one.

No, its not as if we have 100 different types of solutions. We have ZERO solutions in front of us. The only thing served on this buffet is poison.

[mehmet]

We just ask for what rightfully and legally belongs to us and nothing more than that.

So what does rightfully and legally belong to 'you' and who are 'you'? Am I part of the 'you'?

[MicAtCyp]

Bananiot, assuming Papadopoulos had presented the Anan Plan version 5 in a neutral way and left the people decide by themselves for a yes or no, what do you think the outcome would be? In my opinion it would still be a NO.Propably not 76%, maybe 60%.Wouldn’t that be worse? In any case even if all Politicians would say yes to the Anan Plan, the people were furious on the matter of properties.I heard of refugees saying "What? They will take my properties and give me papers?The hell with the papers I don't want any papers I will burn them immediately!" So in my opinion the people were ALWAYS against all the Anan Plans from version 1 to 5 because of the property issue. It was ALWAYS impossible to turn any result to yes.The No would always prevail... Besides did you notice the peoples reaction after Anan 1 ? Everybody got speachless.In fact nobody ever cared even reading it, as everybody thought Denktash would save us once again.

My friend if bi-zonality means: a) The TCs will be a majority in their area b) ALSO OWN THE MAJORITY of the properties in that area,

then their area under control cannot be more than 18%.(which as we know they don't accept) Controlling an area of 29% means that about half the GC refugees will have to LOSE their properties, or be compensated from their own pockets.
Thats why I always supported that bizonality can exist by just limiting the right to return.Limiting also the right to own their properties (by officially stealing their properties) creates a hell lot of unjustice. And if this is what they mean by Bi-zonal Federation then we must forget the whole idea the soonest possible, because it will never be accepted by the GCs!!

I think it is wrong to blaim Papadopoulos for everything.Its like looking for scapegoats.The fact is that everybody was present at the negotiations.Klerides,Christofias, even Koutsou. They were all negotiating in the background.What did they achieve?Nothing....

[Piratis]

So what does rightfully and legally belong to 'you' and who are 'you'? Am I part of the 'you'?

All Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots. If you also ask for what rightfully and legally belongs to you and nothing more than that, then you are part of that 'you'.

[metecyp]

It beats me. It is really beyond my understanding. We behave as though we have in front of us 100 different types of solutions (like a buffet) and simply we just have to choose one. It appears that some people think that we can even direct the events, simply because we are in the EU and Turkey isn't. Its a fallacy and can only increase our misery. Turkey is waiting in the wings of the EU and another 10 years wait means nothing for Turkey. Unless our hopeless president entertains the notion that we can veto the entry of Turkey.

Thank you. I'm glad that there are still some logical people on both sides.

then their area under control cannot be more than 18%.(which as we know they don't accept) Controlling an area of 29% means that about half the GC refugees will have to LOSE their properties, or be compensated from their own pockets.

In no version of the Annan plan it ever said TCs would have 18%. I'm not debating if TCs have the right to own more than 18% or not. But the question that I'm still waiting to be answered is that if 18% if the maximum that TCs can have in the eyes of Papadopoulos, then why did he say he accepts the philosophy of the plan? Why did he even negotiate?

All Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots. If you also ask for what rightfully and legally belongs to you and nothing more than that, then you are part of that 'you'.

It's very convenient for you to ask TCs to join to "all Cypriots". But you well know that TCs joining in for "all Cypriots" means no protection from the majority, no balance of power, no security, nothing. It's worse than what the Republic of Cyprus offered. If you're really fond of giving people what they rightfully and legally own, why don't you start from de-Hellenizing the Republic of Cyprus?

[Piratis]

It's very convenient for you to ask TCs to join to "all Cypriots". But you well know that TCs joining in for "all Cypriots" means no protection from the majority, no balance of power, no security, nothing.

Thats simply your excuse to keep part of what you do not legally own. In a democratic Cyprus which is part of the EU, TCs will be protected just like any other minority in EU and there will be no security problems or anything like that. So give your excuses to others, not to us.

If you're really fond of giving people what they rightfully and legally own, why don't you start from de-Hellenizing the Republic of Cyprus?

Republic of Cyprus is the 100% of the island of Cyprus. When the 18% of TCs have under control the 35% of land, how can you talk about Hellenization of RC??? You want to solely own that 35%, while at the same time be partners at the rest 65%?

[michalis5354]

At the end of the day a solution that will not reflect Cyprus Interest will never be accepted They are the cypriots who will vote and live on the island and not australians or indonesians!

[michalis5354]

What do you mean protection from the majority? Gcs wont going to eat the TCs . I mean it is an utopia to even believe this! Or even a Fantasy.

Come one Time has changed so does the political and international environment. Are we going to choose to be in the Past?

[mehmet]

[/quote]

Thats simply your excuse to keep part of what you do not legally own. In a democratic Cyprus which is part of the EU, TCs will be protected just like any other minority in EU and there will be no security problems or anything like that. So give your excuses to others, not to us.

I agree EU will alter things. Just today I was reading that EU is discussing trading directly through TRNC. Direct flights werer also mentioned. From internal isolation (63-74) to external isolation (74-04) to possibly Taiwan style solution where no one officially recognises TRNC but no one much cares about that anyway. It is clear that Turkish Cypriots are not seen as the reason for lack of political settlement.

Papadopoulos better think, and think quick. The reality of permanent division is getting nearer. He may say he doesn't want it, he may get upset about what EU is doing, he may get upset about what a lot of people are doing, but he had better do something if he doesn't want to be seen as stepping into Denktas's shoes.

[Piratis]

mehmet, thanks for making clear that what you want to do is to keep our stolen properties for yourselves. We take notes, and when the time will come we will know who you really are and how to treat you.