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What the TCs really want.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby mehmet » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:44 pm

As usual, you have become offensive when you have nothing else to say. You can stick your notes where the sun don't shine.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:27 pm

Offensive? I just say the truth.
You say that TCs supposedly want peace, that they do not want partition anymore, that Denctash didn’t manage to convince TCs about partition etc, and at the same time you are trying your best to get your pseudo state recognized.

This just proves that what TCs want is not justice, peace, unity etc. What they want is partition, to keep the stolen land, and economic benefits on our expense.
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Postby mehmet » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:01 am

No I am not. What I am saying is that recognition or non-recognition is not an issue for TRNC and for Talat. If there is only one state in Cyprus and only one leader of Cyprus than that one leader has a problem if he is considered an obstacle to a settlement. Since April 24 I have several times asked what is Papadopoulos going to do? If his mission is to reunify Cyprus then he has to try convincing Turkish Cypriots with some proposals.

The issues about land will have to be part of the settlement. It is obviously an emotive subject but one that is deeply important to Greek Cypriot feeling. Understandably too, because four GC's, evacuating land was traumatic. It was traumatic for TC's too, who had to leave behind land etc. but what there isn't is this same desire to return.

Economic benefits? Not to be isolated by EU and the rest of the world is what is sought. I don't give a damn for your money, keep it and do what you like with it. We have money of our own, but due to the economic isolation we are not able to do anything except depend on Turkey for support. So you tell your bishop that we are not slobs, we are proud people that want what any other person in this world wants, the ability to support their own family through their own efforts.

If you are interested in justice we have to start with agreeing when the injustice's start. Seeing as you before call facts presented to be lies, you tell me and the other members of this forum when you think at what point you think justice should begin.

Peace will come when justice is achieved for everyone.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:28 am

If his mission is to reunify Cyprus then he has to try convincing Turkish Cypriots with some proposals.


I don't think thats the case. Re-unification will only happen when the occupation of Cyprus becomes too costly for Turkey to maintain. This might happen in 1 year, it might happen in 20.

I don't give a damn for your money, keep it and do what you like with it. We have money of our own


You consider the money that you make by taking advantage of stolen land and properties as yours?

Peace will come when justice is achieved for everyone.


I agree. Would you be willing to accept decisions of international courts? (e.g. Titina Loizidou case)
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Postby mehmet » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:48 am

Land belongs to Turkish Cypriots in RoC too? Both communities have suffered and taken advantage of land, buildings etc. Would it have been better for the houses to remain empty when there were refugees to accommodate? We can keep accountants busy for years estimating the value of things, there has to be a sensible way of addressing the issue.

Personally I would reunification in 1 year rather than 20. What Turkey will do no one knows, any more than anyone knows what any country will do about anything. As I understand your argement the best thing is for continued isolation of Turkish Cypriots and continued pressure on Turkey.

If the same international courts addressed the injustices to Turkish Cypriots from the 1960's then it would seem fair. Then the RoC will have to take responsibility for its actions also.
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Postby metecyp » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:36 am

Re-unification will only happen when the occupation of Cyprus becomes too costly for Turkey to maintain. This might happen in 1 year, it might happen in 20.

You got it all wrong. Reunification will happen among people. It doesn't matter if there are 40.000 soldiers or 650 soldiers. Nothing will be unified if Cypriots are not unified. And to make Cypriots unified means to create a structure where most of the people feel satisfied, protected, and respected (and we know that this will be challenging). So Papadopoulos has to start from showing the TCs that he really cares if he truly wants a solution. Turkey might leave one day as you wish but TCs will be here, and they will still have the same needs.
You consider the money that you make by taking advantage of stolen land and properties as yours?

Yeah. It's ok for you to own the Republic of Cyprus, represent the whole island, get all the foreign aid and benefits on behalf of the whole island, get into EU representing the whole island and all that, but it's not ok to even make money in the north since it's "stolen". This one-sided narrow minded mentality is one of the main reasons why we're in this mess today.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:52 am

If the same international courts addressed the injustices to Turkish Cypriots from the 1960's then it would seem fair. Then the RoC will have to take responsibility for its actions also.


No problem.

Reunification will happen among people.


Sure. But people will stop having outrageous demands when they see that nobody will support such demands.

Yeah. It's ok for you to own the Republic of Cyprus, represent the whole island, get all the foreign aid and benefits on behalf of the whole island, get into EU representing the whole island and all that, but it's not ok to even make money in the north since it's "stolen". This one-sided narrow minded mentality is one of the main reasons why we're in this mess today.


I repeat my question:
Do you want your 18% minority to solely (and illegally) occupy 1/3rd of the country and share the rest 2/3rds with us at the same time?

If there was no Turkish occupation you would have your share of power in RC (which would be bigger than your population), and you would share all benefits and everything.

its like a thief that steals something and runs away to another place where laws do not apply to avoid getting arrested (you have many of those in "TRNC"), and then he accuses his country that they do not give him all the benefits!!

If you want to blame somebody for your current situation thats yourselves and Turkey, and not us.
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Postby Bananiot » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:30 pm

In reply to MikAtCyp's earlier post I would like to point out that the answer for the huge "NO" vote of the GC's does not have much to do with the property issue. I firmly believe that the reasons are mainly psychological and stem from the fact that we are simply not ready for such a big change in out lives. Our society is small and closed and behaves in a typical conservative fashion when it rejects changes. We are doing fairly well, who needs the change? This is the attitude adopted by the layman and this is what spin doctors for the "NO" campaign pressed home viciously and cleverly prior to the referendum. The GC's were never properly informed of what bizonality and federation meant. We all supported it almost because deep down we knew that it was a lost cause and all efforts would fall short of success because of Denktash. Its like the English who always supported the reunification calls for Germany because they knew that this would never happen. Papadopoulos is no scapegoat. He has been around for a very long time. We know who he is! He has written many articles in newspapers prior to becoming president. He even had his own newspaper (KHRYKAS) and I suggest you read some of his articles. They give an excellent inside of the man. He misjudjed horribly the stance of the TC side and when Talat cornered him he had to show his real face. A horrible face of intrigue and deceit. Ferhoigen was furious but many world leaders also felt cheated because Papadopoulow kept pressing home that it was the other side that was intransigent and did not wan a solution to the Cyprob. No, we GC's will surely pay the price for throwing the world community into a merry dance. At the end of the tunnel I can only see partition and the only hope that remains is that Talat and Akinci and the other moderate leaders in the TC community are still thinking on the lines that there is nothig better than a solution that reunites Cyprus and brings lasting peace and prosperity to all Cypriots.

I should like to commend the TC users of this forum for their maturity and clarity of thought and integrity in the face of vicious verbal attacks by the dogmatic. If we cannot debate with TC's of the kind we encounter in this forum then there can be no hope of course. Yes, I have been very depressed since April 24, but I take heart from my TC compatriots and dear friends whom I meet very often and day by day we realise that we are exactly the same people who have fallen victims of the national stupidity of a sorry minority of super patriots in both sides. Perhaps, who knows, there may still be hope ...
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:40 pm

Bananiot,
Why you don't explain the "yes" vote instead? From what you say you clearly show that you have no clue why we voted no. So let us explain why we voted the way we did, we know better. You are supporting the Annan plan in such a fanatic way that you are obviously not in a position to make a correct and objective analysis of the "no" vote.

Just a note of what you called us so far:
naive, nationalists, extremists, dogmatic, measled (and therefore idiots) etc.
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Postby michalis5354 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:50 pm

The military officers in Turkey ought to had pursue policies that had been in the interest of the Turksihcypriots . Therefore the root of the issue is here. Arent the Turksihcypriots the reasons they are on the island? or is it something else?

I can understand the issue of cypriots unification , but how can this be 100% achieved when foreign troops are on the island. TCs want to be protected by the same logic GCs also want to be protected. The issue of security is very crucial for both Gcs and TCs. Therefore when anyone speak about unification of cypriots this need to be addressed on a broader scale.
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