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What the TCs really want.

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What the TCs really want.

Postby MicAtCyp » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:49 pm

POLITIS ARTICLE No 462368
By Sener Levent

Read the full article in Greek here:
http://www.politis-news.com/cgibin/hweb ... [email protected]&-P

The first condition to be a patriot in Cyprus

The Greek-Cypriot side behaved very carefully in the relations that it developed with the TCs after 1974. It did not press at the bi-communal meetings. It did not mention the Turkish occupation in these meetings and did not require from anyone to condemn it. It did not say it will not collaborate with those who accept the occupation. It did not bring anyone to a difficult position. It showed "understanding". Is it because it knew that no Turkish Cypriot could think like a Greekcypriot?

It was just enough for them to call the TCs participating at the meetings as "peace demanding forces". In the common bulletins that they published after each meeting they avoided to even mention the occupation. They just used generalised vague expressions like "peace", "common objective" and "United Cyprus". This situation appeased the TCs so that they continued participating to these meetingss and continued signing the common bulletins. ....

However the beleifs were completely different. A lot of Greekcypriots believed that the TCs objected to the Turkish occupation in the island, the same way they did. They could not say this openly because that would open the box of Pandora. I for the first time personally witnessed what the Greekcypriots really felt, at the women demonstrations at the borders of the occupied areas during the decade of the 80s. And to tell you the truth, I bewildered with what I saw.

We were on a hill at the village of Louroyjina. The Greekcypriot women had broken the borders and encircled that hill. Seeing them from far they looked like the birds of Alfred Hitchkok. They ware quiet and calm. However this quietness got spoiled when the Turkish police officers started hitting them with truncheons and the United Nations men interfered. The Turkish fanatics that gathered on the hill attacked the Greekcypriot women. A GC girl, who saw this violence, asked me: "Are these people TurkishCypriots or settlers?" When I answered her that yes the majority of them were TurkishCypriots she got so astonished and said "Oh my Good" ! As if within a single moment all her dreams,and all her hopes, got demolished.We never expected something like that from the TurkishCypriots she said.


*****************************************************************************************
Here are my comments for this part of the article:

Do you remember that old TC man with white hair hitting with a rugby crook our women on the head? Do you remember that the same bastard was among those who killed Isaac at the Dherynia demonstrations a few years ago by hitting him on the head with heavy rocks? Do you remember the TC police dragging our women from the hair and pulling them on the ground like dogs?Do you remember that barbarosity? Well if you do, then ask your selves why, and what kind of solution the TCs realy want.For me there is no doubt that what the TCs want is two completely separate state either in reality or in disguise-(as per Anan Plan), that would enable them legalise the results of the Turkish Invasion, the holding of stolen properties, the holding of double as much land than what their 18% population proportion is, the holding of 70% of Cyprus’s natural resources, and the turning of the GCs to 2nd class citizens with limited human rights.So what choice are we the GCs left with?
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:09 pm

I never had any contact with TCs, but from what I can see from these forums I came to the same conclusion for most (not all) TCs.

It seems to me that is a waste of time to discuss anything.

What we have against us is Turkey itself, and Turkey will move its troops out of Cyprus if and when it is forced to do so.

Our job should be to make the occupation of Cyprus as costly as possible for Turkey. Maybe a veto in December should be the first step.
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Postby mehmet » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:19 pm

try meeting some and talking to them and listening to them. You might be surprised. There are not enough people participating in this forum for you to get an accurate picture.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:18 pm

I slightly disagree with you Piratis.It is Turkey AND the TurkishCypriots.Both. Turkey cannot force a solution in Cyprus that the TCs will not want, and TCs cannot agree to a solution which Turkey will not want either.Those who say that if we had to deal only with TCs we would find a solution in 24 hours are wrong.The majority of TCs would love to have their own separate State.Their last compromise is a distorted kind of Federation which actually is a confederation or a lose association like the Anan Plan.
I am equally disapointed like you, however I continue talking in Forums.The soonest we clarify things the better for everyone.

Mehmet did you meet and talk with GCs?Are you sure you can satisfy what the majority of them wants? So my question is:If neither side can satisfy the majority of the people of the other side then what kind of solution can anyone expect? And don't forget:We have to satisfy Turkey Uk USA and WhatHaveYou.
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Postby metecyp » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:44 pm

Do you remember the TC police dragging our women from the hair and pulling them on the ground like dogs?Do you remember that barbarosity? Well if you do, then ask your selves why, and what kind of solution the TCs realy want

C ome on man. Don't act as if TCs are monsters and GCs are angels. You know and I know that fanatics exist on both sides, and you know that stupidity has no nationality. I am a TC and I cannot imagine hitting anyone with a stone. I can tell you tons of stories between 1963-74 where GCs tortured TCs. There are no angels in Cyprus. We're both responsible for what happenned. Instead of bringing the past up, you should emphaize on the fact that no major incident happenned since the borders have opened.
I am equally disapointed like you, however I continue talking in Forums.The soonest we clarify things the better for everyone.

You're right that we need to clarify things but I think it's up to GCs now to tell us what they want. We told you what we want. You might not agree with it but at least we stated our opinion. Now you tell us what you want. Unitary state with individual rights, or federation, or something else. The ball is on your ground now.
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Postby metecyp » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:51 pm

Piratis wrote:I never had any contact with TCs, but from what I can see from these forums I came to the same conclusion for most (not all) TCs.

Maybe you should try to meet with more TCs, then you'll get a better picture. I don't even think that you even know exactly what TCs on this forum want. We mostly start talking about something and never reach to a conclusion. I'm sure if we met in the real life, we could have come closer in terms of a solution.
Our job should be to make the occupation of Cyprus as costly as possible for Turkey. Maybe a veto in December should be the first step.

You've been trying that for 30 years now, did it get you anywhere? If Turkey is vetoed in December and Turkey decides to forget about EU, is that going to help you? Absolutely not. If you really want to help for the situation, you should first sit and listen the story of TCs. You should then at least try to make TCs feel as Cyprus citizens rather than some foreigners. You should also try to improve the trust between the people and then you'll see how everything gets better. Trying to make Turkey "pay" for the occupation is only going to deepen the hostilities and nothing else.
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Postby mehmet » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:54 pm

Yes, I meet and talk with Greek Cypriots and have done all my life. I live here in UK and count Greek Cypriots amongst my freinds. The point is we can't ever satisfy the desire to turn back the clock and pretend 1974 never happened and the reasons for it never happened. After what the Germans did to other nations can the Germans expect to be allowed to forget what happened? Will Turkish people ever live in Crete and all other islands and in Salonika and other places on the mainland? Will Greek people ever live in Anatolia? Will the Jews ever leave Palestine and return to Europe?

Your politicians have been deluding you with false promises for thirty years. When finally there was the prospect of a settlement Greek Cypriots vote no for all the reasons that have been discussed on this forum. I don't believe there will be another alternative for some time and no guarantee it will prove more acceptable. Turkish Cypriots have had to face some hard facts in the last couple of facts, unfortunately there hasn't been a parallel process in the RoC. From the way I have been observing it your leaders are asking for the impossible. There is no return to things as they were, until your politicians are prepared to negotiate for something that is possible we have stalemate.

And no, my Greek friends don't agree with me either.
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Re: What the TCs really want.

Postby PEACE » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:22 am

MicAtCyp wrote:Here are my comments for this part of the article:

Do you remember that old TC man with white hair hitting with a rugby crook our women on the head? Do you remember that the same bastard was among those who killed Isaac at the Dherynia demonstrations a few years ago by hitting him on the head with heavy rocks? Do you remember the TC police dragging our women from the hair and pulling them on the ground like dogs?Do you remember that barbarosity? Well if you do, then ask your selves why, and what kind of solution the TCs realy want.


These are just only to liven up fanatism.I don't like "Do you remember that "they" did..." type sentences.

MicAtCyp hasn't got goodwill while telling these!His messege works for fanatism and full of hatred !

He knows that these are the fanatics and he can't say these "TCs" but he is trying to show TCs are barbarians or monsters that you can't trust and live together.



MicAtCyp wrote:For me there is no doubt that what the TCs want is two completely separate state either in reality or in disguise-(as per Anan Plan), that would enable them legalise the results of the Turkish Invasion, the holding of stolen properties, the holding of double as much land than what their 18% population proportion is, the holding of 70% of Cyprus’s natural resources, and the turning of the GCs to 2nd class citizens with limited human rights.So what choice are we the GCs left with?

Majority of TCs wants a solution like Annan Plan refers where Tcs won't be dominated by Greek Cypriots.We said %65 Yes to Annan Plan!
%65 is not so high for Yes.So this shows that plan worse than Annan Plan is little difficult to be accepted by TCs.%65 can be easly decrease to under %50.So this show that if there will be a solution it will be similar to Annan Plan's content.

Stolen properties won't be stolen anymore after they are compensated!
With a solution GCs won't be 2nd class citizens.Plan does not refers different type citizenship degrees for Tcs and Gcs. What rights a TC has in Greek Cypriot Constituent State a GC will has the same in Turkish Cypriot Constituent State.



the holding of double as much land than what their 18% population proportion is, the holding of 70% of Cyprus’s natural resources

Federation is not seperation.As you want an unitary solution, you can't resist even federation.

Don't forget Cyprus will be whole and there won't be your soil and my soil and my resources and your resources.

Do you read that who will be responsible from natural resources ? Common State or constituent states?
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Postby PEACE » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:41 am

I become seperated from the forum for so long time because of my exams but i can see that nothing changed.All discussions are knotting with same ideas,all discussion subjects comes to same points. :roll: I'll try to read as much as i can ! Ufff i missed so much things :eyecrazy: :lol:

Anyway... At last i'm back again ! :wink:
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Postby Bananiot » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:56 pm

I invested a lot of sentiment in the A plan as I thought it was a balanced plan that offered a unique opportunity for eventual solution and long-lasting peace on the island. I am now very concerned that we have allowed history to by pass us. Years will pass till another effort is made by the UN or any other authoritative organisation. Frankly, I am not so sure that this will ever happen. I feel, we have decided that partition is what we want. Thirty years have been more than enough to break any bridges left beetwen TC and GC and having got so much used to the idea of going all alone it was extremely difficult to decide for a plan that would change the status quo, even if we kept habitually calling for a change. The next time another plan is thrown at us (if this ever materialises) this sociological factor will be even stronger. This is just one factor, what about all the others that worked to bring the huge "no" vote from our side?

Yes, I am very disappointed and extremely pessimistic for our common future. Yet, what can we simple people do? Live to fight for another day, perhaps ....
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