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What does really majority rule mean?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

What does really majority rule mean?

Postby insan » Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:18 pm

What's that majority rule issue?

According to dominant GC point of view majority should always rule the minority with every aspects... Politicaly, economicaly, culturaly etc...

What does this mean?

This doesn't mean that they want to take the minority in their hands and do whatever they wish.

Let's say majority(majority of GCs or majority of GC MPs) took a decision they thought it would be good for both communities but majority of minority(TCs or TC MPs) opposed it...

According to dominant GC point of view regarding the just, viable, stable united Cyprus model; TCs opposition is democratic but if they prevent the majority (majority of GCs or majority of GC MPs) to implement that decision, this is undemocratic and not acceptable... i.e TCs have no right to reject any decision will be taken by majority (majority of GCs or majority of GC MPs) ...

The only way for TCs to stop the implementation of the decision which they think it's not in favour of TCs; going to courts, bring a lawsuit and expecting the court to give a decision in favour of TCs...

This is the main core of Cyprus conflict...


According to dominant GC thesis TCs representation in common parliament is no more than a freedom of speech right.
Last edited by insan on Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby metecyp » Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:46 pm

This is the main core of Cyprus conflict.

Yes, that is indeed the core of the Cyprus problem. That's why there are TCs asking for a seperate state (since they cannot trust living with the GC majority). That's why there are GCs asking for a unitary state with no priviliges to TCs (since they are scared to be ruled by the minority). Those TCs claim that they want seperate state because they want to make sure that their voices will be heard (democracy) and their rights won't be disturbed by GCs as happenned between 1963-74 (human rights). Those GCs claim that all they ask is equal rights for everyone (democracy) and return of all refugees and compensation for the damages (human rights).

As you can see, everybody can claim that what they're asking is human rights and democracy but the biggest mistake of those people (GC and TC alike) is that they fail to take the other side's fears, wishes, etc. into account. That's why we don't see much communication between that kind of people since they consider themselves enemies.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:43 am

Those TCs claim that they want separate state because they want to make sure that their voices will be heard (democracy)


Nobody wants to silence the voice of TCs. One thing is to make your voice heard (which is democratic and nobody objects to it) and a whole another thing is to impose your minority opinion on the majority, something that definitely is not democratic.

Let's say majority(majority of GCs or majority of GC MPs) took a decision they thought it would be good for both communities but majority of minority(TCs or TC MPs) opposed it...

In this case if the majority of GCs that want that something is lets say 55% while the majority of TCs that reject it is 90% then this something is rejected. You have 18% voting power. Thats more power than the party that elected our president has.

If 18% power is to little for your 18% minority, then simply declare that you do not accept democracy.

If you accept democracy and you want more power at the same time there is only one way to achieve it: sex without condoms :wink:
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Postby PEACE » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:37 am

impose your minority opinion on the majority, something that definitely is not democratic.


We need to be protected ethnically! If you say we are all Cypriots i just laugh to it.Cos when saying this in your mind you remember that you are a Greek.Democracy only can be where ethnic minority is protected !
So we need extra rights to be protected from Greek Cypriot dominance.
Even in Republic of Cyprus TCs and GCs has seperate elections! Do you know?Also president deputy must be a TC and it has veto power.These are needed.

Asia Minor law and Greek National Defender Army is examples for laws that TCs can't accept.These laws and more are accepted in RC which only Greek Cypriots governs it.

Think about one day Greek Cypriot majority decided to change the constitution to unite with Greece.

Think about GC majority decided to take a decision to decrease TCs rights !


If 18% power is to little for your 18% minority, then simply declare that you do not accept democracy.

Where do you know that we are %18? From me? I said it several times but it was in 1960s ratio.



You have 18% voting power.


Where is this writing? :lol: :lol: :lol: I can't see this in 1960 agreements!




If you accept democracy and you want more power at the same time there is only one way to achieve it: sex without condoms


Interesting example.What do you mean?
Do you mean that if we want extra rights to protect us from Greek Cypriot dominance we'll get risk?

I don't think so.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:30 pm

We want to take no right from you. You are the ones who want to take rights from us and we can not accept it.

What I know is that I am 1 Cypriot. If lets say we are 800.000 Cypriots, I demand my 1/800.000 share of political power. Give me my 1/800.000 and decide how you will share the rest of it with the rest 799.999 Cypriots. If some of them are willing to get less than their 1/800.000 share so you will get more, thats their problem. I will never agree for such thing. Maybe Bananiot would agree to give up his political rights so you will have twice as many. Ask him.
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Postby insan » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:35 pm

So... The seperate simple majority vote should be adequate to accept or reject any decision taken by any of the parties?

What if any of the parties insist on making others to accept their decision/project etc?

Let's say %65 of TCs(or TC mps) said yes and %76 of GCs(or GC Mps) said no to it...

Should we forget about it or keep negotiating to make it joint acceptable/rejectable?

Let's say they kept negotiating it but the result wasn't changed... then what should be done?


Let's say we managed to reunify our country and got along fairly good untill 2007... A referandum was held and the simple majority voted withdrawal of all foreign forces; including British Bases... Could foreign forces oppose the decision of simple majority of Cypriots and reject it?



Why do TCs think and insist on taking more power than their population proportion in common state?Is it fair?

Wasn't it one of the core point of Cyprus problem and had been justified by Turkish side in 1971 while Denktash and Klerides were negotiating the issue?

As far as I know Greek side didn't oppose this point in last two years negotiation process... Why?


Let's say all refugees returned to their properties in North with full political rights, just 40.000 settlers allowed to stay with no political rights and in 5 years time population ratio became 1TC/3GC in North..

Would it be possible to maintain the bi-zonal, bi-communal federative state of unified Cyprus?

So what's the base of viability and stability of bi-communal, bi-zonal, federative state of United Cyprus?


Or is it an impossible dream, a waste of time?

Don't you think that a unitary state which should be politicaly and economicaly based on proportional participation of both communities and full human rights would be the most viable, stable and just solution for all of us?


If so why did both parties agree to cooperate on a federative basis to find a solution for Cyprus problem?


Are they totally blind or like to waste their time for nonesense and make their people suffer?


My opinion:

Cyprus problem have been created by a bunch of stupid Cypriots and have been being maintained by same bunch of stupid Cypriots.

What is Cyprus problem?

Just a total nonesense which simple majority of Cypriots think it is something else!!!









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Postby Piratis » Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:09 pm

My position is that simple majority for most matters and special majority (e.g. 85%) for critical matters like change of constitution, election law etc.
But even when simple majority is enough, that doesn't mean that we should not try to take decisions with as higher support as possible.

Obviously a unitary state would serve the interests of Cypriots better. I believe that the main reason we came to this point is not our stupidity as you say, but the interests of some foreigners - UK (US) and Turkey. Turkey wants to have some control over north Cyprus and with a federal structure where their own settlers will be either the majority or a very big minority, they will.

UK, wants the solution to be fragile so they will know that at any moment we try to get rid of them it will be easy for them to press the "divide and rule" button and have as fighting each other again.
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Postby insan » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:22 pm

UK, wants the solution to be fragile so they will know that at any moment we try to get rid of them it will be easy for them to press the "divide and rule" button and have as fighting each other again.




piratis,


Haven't we got a "keep our communities united" and "kick the foreigners in the ass" buttons to press? I fed up this conspiracy scenarios... Are vast majority of Cypriots just remotely controlled puppets which have some buttons to operate and direct them?
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Postby Piratis » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:33 pm

It would be nice to have buttons like those, but we don't. It is obvious to me that many TCs even today are trying to find excuses why TCs and GCs have to stay separate. Therefore I am afraid that if/when those foreigners decide that it would be for their own interest to press the "divide and rule" button, that many TCs will not let this chance slip away and will take advantage of it to achieve thier dream (partition).

I know you don't have such dream, but I am afraid a lof of TCs do, and if we add to those the settlers that will be legalized then I am afraid they are the majority in your side.
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Postby michalis5354 » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:45 pm

Any future solution of the Cyprus problem need to address adequately the Long term interest of Cyprus (100% Independence , Further development and financial growth of the whole country , 100 % security - Old fashioned practises must be abandoned) Once these core issues are satisfied then I dont see how the solution would not be passed on the referndums.

At a time when any country internationally looks to preserve its own national interest - and there is a severe competition on that- its absurb how Cyprus would not.

I mean Greekcypriots are not evil mindeds and I am not evil minded that Iam ready to harm the Turksihcypriots . I consider both groups as Cypriots. The military officers in Turkey who tend to think that way they are out of reality.

Anyone who is making a purchasing decision to buy a house He/She does not look into the prices of 1910 , these are irrelevant but the prices of today otherwise He/She will make a wrong decision.
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