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FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS?

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FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS?

Postby BirKibrisli » Fri May 21, 2010 4:51 am

The political leadership of the European Parliament will discuss on 10 June a controversial proposal that would enable the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus to trade directly with the European Union.

The government of Cyprus has been blocking the proposal from the European Commission since 2004 in the EU's Council of Ministers. But changes made by the Lisbon treaty mean that Cyprus no longer has a veto over the issue and MEPs have acquired powers of co-decision over what the Commission considers to be a matter of international trade.





http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/im ... 67996.aspx
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Postby Gasman » Fri May 21, 2010 9:56 am

Birkibrisli,

'Will discuss' does not equate to 'will do'.

I'd have thought that anything that requires the international recognition of the TRNC to go ahead would not be possible unless and until it is ever internationally recognised.

However, if, by some chance, restrictions on Trade were to be lifted in the North, how many 'ordinary Turkish Cypriots' would start to immediately benefit from this?

Are they waiting in their thousands with innovative ideas for international businesses to be set up? Do they produce stuff in enough quantity (whatever it might be) to be able to offer it worldwide and turn their economy round?

Obviously there are a certain number of folk who would be happy to be able to import stuff for their personal use a bit quicker and cheaper than they can now. But I should have thought that both sides have to demonstrate that they can solve the Cyprus Problem before restrictions that have been put in place by both sides can be lifted by some outside powers.

What would be the point in these long drawn out discussions of the problem if all the things both sides complain about can be sorted without their 'permission' or either being able to veto or have a say in those decisions? There'd be no need for a 'solution' if all the problems went away without one would there?

Having said that - it did rather seem that, where the question of GC 'property' was concerned - that was what was being mooted - that GCs would have to abide by ECHJ rulings about it.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri May 21, 2010 10:09 am

I always thought that “Turkish Cypriots” were already trading with the EU… I mean how did all those priceless ancient Cypriot artifacts they stole get to the British museum?

And what about the usurping of GC properties…how did all these Europeans come to hear about them and move to the occupied territory? Do European Real Estate agencies in liaison with “Turkish Cypriots” have something to do with it?

So basically, everything belonging to Greek Cypriots has already been on the European market which begs the question…

Given that “Turkish Cypriots” manufacture next to nothing and in miniscule quantities, what could they possibly have for sale now… their mothers? Image
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Postby vaughanwilliams » Fri May 21, 2010 11:24 am

Gasman wrote:Birkibrisli,

'Will discuss' does not equate to 'will do'.

I'd have thought that anything that requires the international recognition of the TRNC to go ahead would not be possible unless and until it is ever internationally recognised.

However, if, by some chance, restrictions on Trade were to be lifted in the North, how many 'ordinary Turkish Cypriots' would start to immediately benefit from this?

Are they waiting in their thousands with innovative ideas for international businesses to be set up? Do they produce stuff in enough quantity (whatever it might be) to be able to offer it worldwide and turn their economy round?

Obviously there are a certain number of folk who would be happy to be able to import stuff for their personal use a bit quicker and cheaper than they can now. But I should have thought that both sides have to demonstrate that they can solve the Cyprus Problem before restrictions that have been put in place by both sides can be lifted by some outside powers.

What would be the point in these long drawn out discussions of the problem if all the things both sides complain about can be sorted without their 'permission' or either being able to veto or have a say in those decisions? There'd be no need for a 'solution' if all the problems went away without one would there?

Having said that - it did rather seem that, where the question of GC 'property' was concerned - that was what was being mooted - that GCs would have to abide by ECHJ rulings about it.


Direct trade already exists in that we can import from but not export to the rest of the world. Your most pertinent question is: What do we have to export? We have no industry to speak of and only a little agriculture. Direct trade does not effect tourism or construction - TRNCs two main "industries".
Direct trade does not, as far as I know, include direct, non-stop flights, so to win a decision on direct trade would be, to my mind, purely a psychological bonus and yet another step towards recognition. Something it would be hard to put a price on.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri May 21, 2010 11:53 am

Gasman wrote:Birkibrisli,

'Will discuss' does not equate to 'will do'.

I'd have thought that anything that requires the international recognition of the TRNC to go ahead would not be possible unless and until it is ever internationally recognised.

However, if, by some chance, restrictions on Trade were to be lifted in the North, how many 'ordinary Turkish Cypriots' would start to immediately benefit from this?

Are they waiting in their thousands with innovative ideas for international businesses to be set up? Do they produce stuff in enough quantity (whatever it might be) to be able to offer it worldwide and turn their economy round?

Obviously there are a certain number of folk who would be happy to be able to import stuff for their personal use a bit quicker and cheaper than they can now. But I should have thought that both sides have to demonstrate that they can solve the Cyprus Problem before restrictions that have been put in place by both sides can be lifted by some outside powers.

What would be the point in these long drawn out discussions of the problem if all the things both sides complain about can be sorted without their 'permission' or either being able to veto or have a say in those decisions? There'd be no need for a 'solution' if all the problems went away without one would there?

Having said that - it did rather seem that, where the question of GC 'property' was concerned - that was what was being mooted - that GCs would have to abide by ECHJ rulings about it.


Gasman,
As VW stated above the decision ,if it comes,will be symbolic. It will indicate that the EU will not be part of a political and geopolitical struggle,about which it can do nothing...The fact that there is at present little to trade does not mean there won't be any in the future if the trade bans are lifted...TCs in and out of Cyprus are no less enterprising than their GC cousins,and given half a chance they will put it to good use ,I am sure...I am personally aware of certain IT projects waiting to get off the ground..Lifting of the trade bans will also signal a recognition by the EU and perhaps the UN subsequently that the TCs have been unfairly treated for a very long time..I hope you did not buy the offical GC government arguments that the TCs simply walked out of government and refused to return in 1963...The indisputable fact is that nobody could guarantee the physical security of any TC in the GC majority areas at the time...It was simply too risky for the TC MPs and Ministers,let alone for the other lower government officials or employees to venture anywhere out of their enclaves at the height of the troubles...Please don't let anyone tell you otherwise...And I hope you will ignore GR's rather stupid post above and will treat him with the contempt he so rightly deserves... 8)
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Postby Piratis » Fri May 21, 2010 8:45 pm

I see BirKibrisli is trying to use every chance to spread Turkish propaganda lies. The Turkish minority in our island not only has not been treated unfairly, but on the contrary has been enjoying privileges on the expense of the local Cypriot population for centuries.

As always Bir likes to start history in 1963. I will not talk about the oppression the Cypriot people had to suffer under the Turkish invaders until just a few decades earlier. However Bir also forgets that just a few years before 1963, in 1958, it was the Turkish minority who committed the first massacre against GCs and who burned down the homes and shops of innocent Cypriots.

All these in their effort to regain privilages similar to those they enjoyed on our expense during Ottoman rule. They collaborated with the foreign imperialists and they imposed on the Cypriot people by means of brute force and blackmail what was for the interests of their own minority and the British and Turkish imperialists who were behind their actions.

In 1963 the democratically elected president of Cyprus just proposed changes to the foreign imposed constitution, that would remove the racist discriminations that were imposed on us and make Cyprus a normal democratic country like all the rest. The fact is that the Turkish minority walked out of the government and they restarted the conflict, just like they had earlier done in 1958.

Their plan was to destabilize Cyprus and create an inter-communal conflict which Turkey could use as an excuse to invade Cyprus and put into action the partition plan they created in 1957. Their plan didn't work exactly as planned since the Ameriacans stopped Turkey from invading in 1964, and they had to wait for the next excuse to put into action their partition plan.
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Re: FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS?

Postby Jerry » Fri May 21, 2010 9:00 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
The political leadership of the European Parliament will discuss on 10 June a controversial proposal that would enable the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus to trade directly with the European Union.

The government of Cyprus has been blocking the proposal from the European Commission since 2004 in the EU's Council of Ministers. But changes made by the Lisbon treaty mean that Cyprus no longer has a veto over the issue and MEPs have acquired powers of co-decision over what the Commission considers to be a matter of international trade.







http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/im ... 67996.aspx


If the EU wants to be seen as acting fairly and wishes to add impetus to reconciliation it should indeed allow direct trade between EU and the north subject to the condition that Varosha is returned immediately to the ROC.

That would be more than just a symbolic gesture - but it won't happen will it.
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Postby B25 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:35 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Gasman wrote:Birkibrisli,

'Will discuss' does not equate to 'will do'.

I'd have thought that anything that requires the international recognition of the TRNC to go ahead would not be possible unless and until it is ever internationally recognised.

However, if, by some chance, restrictions on Trade were to be lifted in the North, how many 'ordinary Turkish Cypriots' would start to immediately benefit from this?

Are they waiting in their thousands with innovative ideas for international businesses to be set up? Do they produce stuff in enough quantity (whatever it might be) to be able to offer it worldwide and turn their economy round?

Obviously there are a certain number of folk who would be happy to be able to import stuff for their personal use a bit quicker and cheaper than they can now. But I should have thought that both sides have to demonstrate that they can solve the Cyprus Problem before restrictions that have been put in place by both sides can be lifted by some outside powers.

What would be the point in these long drawn out discussions of the problem if all the things both sides complain about can be sorted without their 'permission' or either being able to veto or have a say in those decisions? There'd be no need for a 'solution' if all the problems went away without one would there?

Having said that - it did rather seem that, where the question of GC 'property' was concerned - that was what was being mooted - that GCs would have to abide by ECHJ rulings about it.


Gasman,
As VW stated above the decision ,if it comes,will be symbolic. It will indicate that the EU will not be part of a political and geopolitical struggle,about which it can do nothing...The fact that there is at present little to trade does not mean there won't be any in the future if the trade bans are lifted...TCs in and out of Cyprus are no less enterprising than their GC cousins,and given half a chance they will put it to good use ,I am sure...I am personally aware of certain IT projects waiting to get off the ground..Lifting of the trade bans will also signal a recognition by the EU and perhaps the UN subsequently that the TCs have been unfairly treated for a very long time..I hope you did not buy the offical GC government arguments that the TCs simply walked out of government and refused to return in 1963...The indisputable fact is that nobody could guarantee the physical security of any TC in the GC majority areas at the time...It was simply too risky for the TC MPs and Ministers,let alone for the other lower government officials or employees to venture anywhere out of their enclaves at the height of the troubles...Please don't let anyone tell you otherwise...And I hope you will ignore GR's rather stupid post above and will treat him with the contempt he so rightly deserves... 8)


Well in that case then, we may just as well get rid of the UN, since their resolutions are meaningless now that the EU can overide them a?

The lisbon treaty, was to allow better governance within the Union not to get involved in war, conflicted disputes.

Speaking of better governance and vetos, isn't this what Makarions was trying to achieve, go figure.

It is always about what suits the turks and no one else matters.

Talk is cheap, they can talk all they like it will never happen.

Keep those wet dreams coming Bir.
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Postby Piratis » Fri May 21, 2010 9:35 pm

There is only one state in Cyprus and there is already direct trade between the one and only state of Cyprus and the EU. The TCs are free (or as free as Turkey allows them to be) to use the legal ports and airports of Cyprus.

The injustice is the one against the Cypriot people who are embargoed from their own homes and properties.

If the Turks want another port of Cyprus to open for direct trade all they have to do is to stop illegally occupying it. Then it can open as another free port of Republic of Cyprus.
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Re: FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS?

Postby BirKibrisli » Sat May 22, 2010 1:16 am

Jerry wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
The political leadership of the European Parliament will discuss on 10 June a controversial proposal that would enable the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus to trade directly with the European Union.

The government of Cyprus has been blocking the proposal from the European Commission since 2004 in the EU's Council of Ministers. But changes made by the Lisbon treaty mean that Cyprus no longer has a veto over the issue and MEPs have acquired powers of co-decision over what the Commission considers to be a matter of international trade.







http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/im ... 67996.aspx


If the EU wants to be seen as acting fairly and wishes to add impetus to reconciliation it should indeed allow direct trade between EU and the north subject to the condition that Varosha is returned immediately to the ROC.

That would be more than just a symbolic gesture - but it won't happen will it.


I hope it can and it will,Jerry....I would have no problem with that.. We just must move forward from the bog hole we are in....One step at a time,if that is what it will take...We can't go from here to the ideal solution in one step...But try telling that to the bloodyminded,hatefilled,revenge-seeking,bitter and twisted individuals on this forum... :(
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