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...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:38 pm

...vp, you don't get it.

whether a riding/district is more Greek or Turkish does not matter. each riding has two Representatives, and the voters choose from the Candidates listed on the seperate slates for their Representation, as a district/ riding, one Turkish, one Greek.

is this clear?
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:12 pm

These two groups gc and tc have to a point that they dont want anything to do with each other, why not try and get them to come together in friendship, to get to know each other and the rest is easy
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:02 pm

...the question Oceanside, is in defining so called gcs and tcs as you say. for many, and in my opinion, Cyprus comes first, are they Greeks or "Greeks", Turks or "Turks". i think you are, like many, confused by the brash patriots who choose to ignore that above all, we are all of the same race, the Human Race, rather than Nationalists strictly devoted to a dogma which profits from an adversarial approach, that promotes fear and hatred for those unlike "them".

...what is "easy", is not necessarily right, dividing the island in two to accomodate this thinking will only lead to the subjugation of Cypriots to a myth promoted by an elite who have no interest in the betterment of their lives as Indivuduals. simply insisting that the vast majority living in Cyprus are Greeks, does not respect the complexities of a population which live in the Modern world, with distinctive identities. but both Greek Cypriots, and Turkish Cypriots must respect this possibility, they must wrest the Agenda from the extremists who seek the status quo, first as a Sovereign People, and secondly in defiance of the sense that Greekness or Turkishness has a place in their representation as Cypriots. it is why so much effort is placed on defining a Principal which is Bicommunal, where there is a State which respects and defends the Rights of its Citizens without distinction or discrimination, as Individuals, and within the State, Cypriot Constituencies which can sustain these Citizens as Persons through another level of Government where they have as such, self-representation.

...to put it another way, 20 million crossings have occured, since the gates were opened, without violence and death, it is hardly true therefore that these people do not want anything to do with each other, they wish to live in peace together. and to put it even more simply, your observation is correct, dialog will make this impasse eventually a thing of the past.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:29 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...vp, you don't get it.

whether a riding/district is more Greek or Turkish does not matter. each riding has two Representatives, and the voters choose from the Candidates listed on the seperate slates for their Representation, as a district/ riding, one Turkish, one Greek.

is this clear?


Now I think you are taking the piss, we are going around in circles getting nowhere,your clarifications are terrible and im losing all interest in your manifesto, now you are saying we have a TC and GC candidates who will run pairs, linked at the hip, so we have 50 ridings with 2 MPs from each riding totaling 100 MPs right? or 25 ridings with 2 MPs each totaling 50?

Do they each have a vote in the upper house or do they vote in pairs? whats happens if the split is 25 25? what is the voting balance in the upper house?

If I dont get clear precise answers and just a "you dont get it" response forget it Im wont respond and your manifesto thingy will be rejected.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:30 am

Oceanside50 wrote:These two groups gc and tc have to a point that they dont want anything to do with each other, why not try and get them to come together in friendship, to get to know each other and the rest is easy



They have been doing this for the last 9 years and we are further away from a solution than we have ever been.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:17 am

...as an example:

the President is the leader of the Liberal Party. he has a majority of the seats in the Upper House. whether this is from having a majority of the seats held by Greek Cypriot Representatives or Turkish Cypriot Representatives is irrelavant, he/she has a majority of seats.

you chose to vote, Labour, on both slates in your riding, from the candidates offered by different Political Parties, Liberal, Socialist, Labour, etc. it happens that in your riding, the Greek Cypriot Representative who wins is Communist, and the Turkish Representative is Conservative, they won the majority of votes of their respective slates for your electoral riding/district. obviously your representation, you personally, is from the position of an opposition to the Leadership of the Upper House.

since there are 100 seats to be won, a clear majority is only gained if a Party wins more than fifty seats, however coalitions are possible. note that it is almost impossible, obviously, for a single Party to win all the seats, either Greek or Turkish. Representation is based on Principals therefore, and not ethnicity.

...can you see that?
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:52 am

...there has to be one State. Cyprus, its Heritance is too valuable to be dismissed. Cyprus has never been divided, it is an island after-all.

let us not forget that we will be dead soon enough and that what is natural is change. so let us imagine in two hundred years, or one hundred years or fifty, to be realistic. if you imagine a population of twelve million, i'll agree; do the math. do you imagine a population by demographics quite different, scary huh? embrace the future, you may resist, but you will fail thinking that time stops; and that things are perfect the way they are.

...Cyprus needs a perfect government if you will. it must serve its Citizens, without any discrimination or distinction, all are equals. it must be able to express and demonstrate the will of this People toward Universal Principals having the aim to better them. and yet this expression of an Identity is not enough because we are Individuals, but not only, as Persons we seek Self-Representation as well. Bicommunal is not new, and such a course in Cyprus serves a very complex ethnography, it is up to the Greeks, indeed, they are an overwhelming majority, to decide what course Cyprus shall take, and representing themselves internally through a Constituency, does not prevent them, as Cypriots, their voice within a greater whole.

the debate is flawed, it serves the interests of the Nationalists amongst us who would foresake anything else, other than their own Community interests. this vision is better served within their respective Communities, if in the infrastructure they provide, it accomodates accordingly the minorities living amongst them. The State, on the other hand, should neither be Greek or Turkish, it is Cypriot.

you want peace...

...where is the Greek Constituency?
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:10 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:These two groups gc and tc have to a point that they dont want anything to do with each other, why not try and get them to come together in friendship, to get to know each other and the rest is easy



They have been doing this for the last 9 years and we are further away from a solution than we have ever been.

Turkey simply does not want a solution... Thats the problem.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:37 am

RW I may not agree with you wholeheartedly on letting go of ethnicity on Cyprus or that it is necessary but I do agree with ur opinion on elites.. The elites who control the economy media and the government are usually the ones who have an escape plan when worst comes to worst.. For instance when MUBARACK OF EGYPT was ruling one wonders when his alligiance switched from thinking of egypts interests to his own. He may not of realized that point either but he knew very well where to hide his 77 billion and his family left right before his government fell. Unfortunately the elites on Cyprus are as lost as MUBARACK was. The system serves them well and have done quite well within it, why change things? Why change the bureaucracy that intimidates the lower class, why change the justice system where CYPRUS HAS one of the highest timeframes averages for solving contractual disputes of 377 days. Why so many fivefold and distortions in cyprus' media....who was ever convicted of stealing papadopoulous' body was there ever a trial? Why was it a few years ago that a dirty cop was assasinated that very same day the chief of police resigned and the dirty cops killing was barely mentioned. Isn't this type of control part of the problem in reaching a solution.. Assuming the tc are interested in a solution when they see the injustices and shenanigans that handicap the average citizen in the free areas?
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:57 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:These two groups gc and tc have to a point that they dont want anything to do with each other, why not try and get them to come together in friendship, to get to know each other and the rest is easy



They have been doing this for the last 9 years and we are further away from a solution than we have ever been.


We are nearer to the right solution (which you may not like).
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