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...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:42 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:
a federal government must exist. OK
-a Turkish Cypriot constituent state must exist. OK
-a Greek Cypriot constituent state must exist. OK

thus the only conclusion i can make is that there is a need for Greeks to constitute a form of representation that completes this Agreement's very basis; a Greek Cypriot constituent state.

here are the rainbow lines i draw:

1. the federal government defines its Citizens as Individuals; by their residence. OK

2. the voting is democratic, all voters voting in the same way, all votes are given the same weight. OK

3. the legislature for the federal government is Bicameral, it is the Upper House that provides leadership, having seats equally divided among Turkish and Greek representatives where a majority of seats must be won by a leader who becomes President. and a Lower House which is elected by Population, as Independants representing sober second thinking, voting by consensus through a Speaker, they would also sit in Government Committees. (slight shades of the Annan plan)

What would happen in situaitons of deadlock eg 50 vs 50? or 1 GC voter was not available, ı think we need minimums from each state

4. as such, a voter will vote thricely (voting once), from three seperate slates, so that the best representatives are elected by and for the voter's riding, they will vote for their Turkish Cypriot Representative and their Greek Cypriot Representative, as well as their Independant. Representative. (shades of the guy or was it the guy before that)

Risk bells sound here, cross voting for a rep from the the other state could result in unwanted candidates being elected.

...do the math (for the Upper and Lower House), then assume larger populations and a different demographic, do the math again...

...then consider how over time a representative's experience and expertise can grow, and consider how this changing population is open to a representation in the future which will sustain Turkish and Greek identities by civic leaders of neither ethnicity.

5. the Turkish constituent state, and the Greek constituent state shall be equal, in that they each represent themselves as Persons in a National Assembly where their electorate is identified by their residence, and in that they obtian their Charter meeting the same criteria determined by the federal government which retains its Sovereignty while assigning territorial Jurisdiction.

Clarification necessary.

6. Bizonal shall define a geographic representation of our commitment to redressing the suffering of all displaced, with their return, for some as communities. thus the island as it is divided has to its political geography many pockets added everywhere, resulting in the obligation of the National Assemblies to provide their service to an electorate that is island-wide.

REJECTED a mish mash of residents and villages is a return to the 1960s didnt work wont work now.

7. settlers who apply for Citizenship, who are accepted, and who will be newly displaced (from the repopulation) shall be provided homes, or at their choosing compensation.

OK after a certain criteria has been applied to allow "settlers" who have lived on the island for over 30 years to remain.

other thoughts...

8. a protocol over the land issue shall be formed so that most disputes are settled by the afffected bodies themselves. the IPC's mandate may be extended to settle the compensation issues of all the displaced, however rulings from the Supreme Court of Cyprus must remain a final court of Judgement for all Property issues.

OK but how will the supreme court be formed?

9. each of the governing bodies will have the right to armed forces toward the enforcement of Law. however only the federal government has a right to an armed force which defends the State. for foreign troops to exist on the island, none are Sovereign in their Bases, recognising the will of the Cypriot People. as such demilitarised, their own armed force could gain great experience in union with willing lease holders toward a common goal which may serve the bigger fight against real enemies (such as disaster, or disease, hunger, or where there are refugees and displaced against their slaughter), or otherwise strictly not allowed.

OK but who will defend state against state conflicts?

...so, three governments (at least); two levels of government: that's Bicommunal.

...so, constituent states made of many components define a National Identity; they serve this majority first, recognising the special needs of others, Nationally an effort toward the State: this is Bizonal.

dear readers, thank-you for your consideration. and to the wordsmiths, please kindly offer your observations point by point to this document's benefits and pitfalls. whether you agree with its proposal as a solution to the Cyprus Problem or not, i'd like to know if at least it is easy to understand.

I have gone over your manifesto but find it very basic, it has to be filled in as to what the checks and balances are, the risks and how they should be addressed.

Do you have any support from your side, can you post a few GC comments because this is very close to the AP and if put to referendum would be rejected by the GCs.
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...for the record: http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus39688-90.html


...for the record, vp's OK or comment on each article.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby kurupetos » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:57 am

Oceanside50 wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:These two groups gc and tc have to a point that they dont want anything to do with each other, why not try and get them to come together in friendship, to get to know each other and the rest is easy



They have been doing this for the last 9 years and we are further away from a solution than we have ever been.

Turkey simply does not want a solution... Thats the problem.

That's because Cypriots vote for politicians who gift hard-earned GC money to the 'trnc', and also choose to weaken the military power of the RoC, where instead they should have invested in WMD technology. :wink:
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:21 am

from what i see this anastasiades is going to be looked upon as a diabolical self interested politician that who knows to what he will agree to, i feel it
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:15 am

...he may well be the politician to see the value in a Greek Constituency. if "Greekness", as such, is removed from the Republic, as President he will be free to evaluate and express the details toward a solution as they are to Cypriots important. when Cypriots, as Constituencies represent themselves, they secure for themselves the Liberty they seek as Persons; the Federal Government, when it is able to treat its Citizens as Individuals, without distinctions or discrimination, will be better able toward securing their Freedom.

...scary stuff indeed, given what he did in the past, and given the opportunities that exist to put pressure on him by forces outside of Cyprus at present.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:26 am

the Federal Government, when it is able to treat its Citizens as Individuals, without distinctions or discrimination, will be better able toward securing their Freedom.



you make a good point RW, individual rights should be paramount in any nation not the groups' or ethnicity....shouldnt the process begin today, even without a settlement to the Cyprus problem?
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:33 am

...what do you mean; more Cyprus Flags when he rallies? even that is a big step ahead.

...by leading a Good Government, at this point, and by placing us back on track Finacially, we advance at least a chance for survival, the idea that Cyprus has a leadership where its Citizens are the Stewards of it and themselves, as this island's dwellers.

...elections follow in the north (and then in Turkey), the Unions (north and south) are now organising to join with each other, a synthesis may occur, the Republic should be ready to add its voice with action that those who love Cyprus, and that those for Human Rights, can amplify.

but in the end it depends on us, a clear message on the ground; it's the Flag thing i'm hooked on, along with the clear desire to see Cyprus no longer as a homeless displaced person.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:52 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...what do you mean; more Cyprus Flags when he rallies? even that is a big step ahead.

...by leading a Good Government, at this point, and by placing us back on track Finacially, we advance at least a chance for survival, the idea that Cyprus has a leadership where its Citizens are the Stewards of it and themselves, as this island's dwellers.

...elections follow in the north (and then in Turkey), the Unions (north and south) are now organising to join with each other, a synthesis may occur, the Republic should be ready to add its voice with action that those who love Cyprus, and that those for Human Rights, can amplify.

but in the end it depends on us, a clear message on the ground; it's the Flag thing i'm hooked on, along with the clear desire to see Cyprus no longer as a homeless displaced person.


We are all sick and tired of this division of the island. Yes individual rights should be above the communities, the flag thing is irrelevant in my opinion. If the Turks and Turk cyps can agree to a one man one vote with two constituent states or preferably cantons for the Tc, then an agreement can be reached tomorrow. The problem is, is that the Turks and Tc dont want a democratic Cyprus but one that the minority has equal say....But i think if there is a way to convince them that individual rights can be guaranteed then they could fall back to a one man one vote democratic Cyprus....RW when people in the free areas of Cyprus are being deported without due process, or citizens of Cyprus being held in prison for months without being charged then what type of signal does that send to the Tc. Ill even go as far as saying that its the majority's responsibility to insure and be an example of upholding individual rights..


a solution to one of your problems of the makeshift constitution of Cyprus:

What would happen in situaitons of deadlock eg 50 vs 50? or 1 GC voter was not available, ı think we need minimums from each state


Have one presiding member elected by both GC and TC break the deadlock...
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:35 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:I'm uncomfortable with the fact that your manifesto is weighted too heavily on ethnic considerations instead of the rights of the individual.


at the Federal level, Individual Rights are absolute. however if there existed at another level of Government a Greek Constituency as an equal to other Cypriot Constituencies it would be a way to establish the difference in meaning to the word Liberty, as compared to Freedom, or State, when compared to Nation, as it is a way (Bicommunal (and now Bizonal)) to define as a People an Identity as Persons, but not just as Persons, as Individuals, as well.
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby Oceanside50 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:48 pm

You need an addendum to your manifesto
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Re: ...it's the manifesto thingy, again

Postby kurupetos » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:41 pm

Oceanside50 wrote:You need an addendum to your manifesto

No, he needs a toilet.
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