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NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:52 am

bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.


That is the idea ,Bill...Each side to take unilateral steps to develop a positive environment for an overall settlement..I have no problem with Turkey starting things off...In fact I think it is appropriate that Turkey as the guarantor and the foreign element in the equation should begin...
But then...do you think the RoC will go ahead with step 2:
????

Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.


Well Bir... we seem to have stumbled at the first step.. the Ankara Protocol, a signed and sealed agreement, reneged on by Turkey, but leaving aside the guarantor nonsense you refer to, it's regrettable and worrying that a former member of the UN Sec Council with ambitions to be a major player can't again be trusted to keep its agreements.

But we'll leave that aside for now shall we and get on to the second and third proposed steps, the matter of EU supervised free trade out of Maras/Famagusta and the matter of Varosi... which are vey similar to the proposals put forward by Pres X just before Xmas... proposals that were rejected by Eroglu.

So we're not doing very well mate, Turkey can't be trusted to get on to the first step and Eroglu rejects the next two steps.


I see...It seems to me that you have already make up your mind...Remember that there was another set of agreements back in 1960 which were signed with the intention of dishonouring by your side...You live in a glass house don't throw stones,Bill...

If we keep giving up before we even start,how are we going to ever come to an agreement...Oh,I remember...The EU will put pressure on Turkey and she will give in to all your demands...Failing that GR will organise a lightening attack with his merceneries and throw the TA out,together with all the TCs and settlers...Failing that you will wait for Piratis' 'change of balance' to invade and defeat Turkey at home...Good luck! Hope all goes according to plan... :roll:
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby DTA » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:01 am

BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.





http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


I as a Tc would accept all these suggestions if they are all implemented simultaneously.

With the case of maras I would like the vakif foundation to conclude their case first... but then still return it to the GCs this would hopefully build more of a state of compromise.
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Postby bill cobbett » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:17 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.


That is the idea ,Bill...Each side to take unilateral steps to develop a positive environment for an overall settlement..I have no problem with Turkey starting things off...In fact I think it is appropriate that Turkey as the guarantor and the foreign element in the equation should begin...
But then...do you think the RoC will go ahead with step 2:
????

Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.


Well Bir... we seem to have stumbled at the first step.. the Ankara Protocol, a signed and sealed agreement, reneged on by Turkey, but leaving aside the guarantor nonsense you refer to, it's regrettable and worrying that a former member of the UN Sec Council with ambitions to be a major player can't again be trusted to keep its agreements.

But we'll leave that aside for now shall we and get on to the second and third proposed steps, the matter of EU supervised free trade out of Maras/Famagusta and the matter of Varosi... which are vey similar to the proposals put forward by Pres X just before Xmas... proposals that were rejected by Eroglu.

So we're not doing very well mate, Turkey can't be trusted to get on to the first step and Eroglu rejects the next two steps.


I see...It seems to me that you have already make up your mind...Remember that there was another set of agreements back in 1960 which were signed with the intention of dishonouring by your side...You live in a glass house don't throw stones,Bill...

If we keep giving up before we even start,how are we going to ever come to an agreement...Oh,I remember...The EU will put pressure on Turkey and she will give in to all your demands...Failing that GR will organise a lightening attack with his merceneries and throw the TA out,together with all the TCs and settlers...Failing that you will wait for Piratis' 'change of balance' to invade and defeat Turkey at home...Good luck! Hope all goes according to plan... :roll:


You are naturally free to think whatever you will Bir ... but rather than revisiting the past ad nauseam, and it doesn't really matter whether you do the re-chundering alone or in the company of Piratis or GR et al, you may wish to have a real good think about something that Pres X has been suggesting for the past year or so and which has fallen on cloth-ears, including yours I fear, and that is to link the little matter of territory with the equally small matter of property.
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Postby DTA » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:34 am

bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.


That is the idea ,Bill...Each side to take unilateral steps to develop a positive environment for an overall settlement..I have no problem with Turkey starting things off...In fact I think it is appropriate that Turkey as the guarantor and the foreign element in the equation should begin...
But then...do you think the RoC will go ahead with step 2:
????

Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.


Well Bir... we seem to have stumbled at the first step.. the Ankara Protocol, a signed and sealed agreement, reneged on by Turkey, but leaving aside the guarantor nonsense you refer to, it's regrettable and worrying that a former member of the UN Sec Council with ambitions to be a major player can't again be trusted to keep its agreements.

But we'll leave that aside for now shall we and get on to the second and third proposed steps, the matter of EU supervised free trade out of Maras/Famagusta and the matter of Varosi... which are vey similar to the proposals put forward by Pres X just before Xmas... proposals that were rejected by Eroglu.

So we're not doing very well mate, Turkey can't be trusted to get on to the first step and Eroglu rejects the next two steps.


I see...It seems to me that you have already make up your mind...Remember that there was another set of agreements back in 1960 which were signed with the intention of dishonouring by your side...You live in a glass house don't throw stones,Bill...

If we keep giving up before we even start,how are we going to ever come to an agreement...Oh,I remember...The EU will put pressure on Turkey and she will give in to all your demands...Failing that GR will organise a lightening attack with his merceneries and throw the TA out,together with all the TCs and settlers...Failing that you will wait for Piratis' 'change of balance' to invade and defeat Turkey at home...Good luck! Hope all goes according to plan... :roll:


You are naturally free to think whatever you will Bir ... but rather than revisiting the past ad nauseam, and it doesn't really matter whether you do the re-chundering alone or in the company of Piratis or GR et al, you may wish to have a real good think about something that Pres X has been suggesting for the past year or so and which has fallen on cloth-ears, including yours I fear, and that is to link the little matter of territory with the equally small matter of property.


But from what date?
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Postby bill cobbett » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:40 am

DTA wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.


That is the idea ,Bill...Each side to take unilateral steps to develop a positive environment for an overall settlement..I have no problem with Turkey starting things off...In fact I think it is appropriate that Turkey as the guarantor and the foreign element in the equation should begin...
But then...do you think the RoC will go ahead with step 2:
????

Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.


Well Bir... we seem to have stumbled at the first step.. the Ankara Protocol, a signed and sealed agreement, reneged on by Turkey, but leaving aside the guarantor nonsense you refer to, it's regrettable and worrying that a former member of the UN Sec Council with ambitions to be a major player can't again be trusted to keep its agreements.

But we'll leave that aside for now shall we and get on to the second and third proposed steps, the matter of EU supervised free trade out of Maras/Famagusta and the matter of Varosi... which are vey similar to the proposals put forward by Pres X just before Xmas... proposals that were rejected by Eroglu.

So we're not doing very well mate, Turkey can't be trusted to get on to the first step and Eroglu rejects the next two steps.


I see...It seems to me that you have already make up your mind...Remember that there was another set of agreements back in 1960 which were signed with the intention of dishonouring by your side...You live in a glass house don't throw stones,Bill...

If we keep giving up before we even start,how are we going to ever come to an agreement...Oh,I remember...The EU will put pressure on Turkey and she will give in to all your demands...Failing that GR will organise a lightening attack with his merceneries and throw the TA out,together with all the TCs and settlers...Failing that you will wait for Piratis' 'change of balance' to invade and defeat Turkey at home...Good luck! Hope all goes according to plan... :roll:


You are naturally free to think whatever you will Bir ... but rather than revisiting the past ad nauseam, and it doesn't really matter whether you do the re-chundering alone or in the company of Piratis or GR et al, you may wish to have a real good think about something that Pres X has been suggesting for the past year or so and which has fallen on cloth-ears, including yours I fear, and that is to link the little matter of territory with the equally small matter of property.


But from what date?


I don't understand mate.
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:50 am

BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.



http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


First of all all we should point out that what is asked from Turkey is just part of what Turkey is already obligated to do, while our side is not obligated to do anything from what is asked to.

The second thing is to ask: "Then what?"

Turkey is occupying the north part of our country and we need to have some leverage to motivate Turkey and TCs to accept a solution that would liberate Cyprus from the Turkish occupation. What will this leverage be if we accept the above proposals?

The third thing is that even the one point that could make us consider the above proposals, that of Famagusta, is watered down to such a degree that is not so interesting any more. It is talking about giving back to GCs their properties, but not about allowing RoC to take back control of the city. It also talks about UN interim regime to "oversee reconstruction"(???). We are perfectly capable to "oversee reconstruction" ourselves, and since this is a place where TCs have not settled, the city can be given back immediately and directly to RoC. The only reason why this is not proposed is that while ICG wants to remove all our bargaining chips, they don't want to remove even a single one from Turkey.

Therefore these proposals are totally imbalanced on the favor of Turkey, which is what is expected by ICG. The co-founder of ICG, Morton Abramowitz, has been an ambassador to Turkey and he even wrote a book promoting a pro-Turkish American policy.

Turkey should give back Varosha and open its ports and airspace to Cyprus (which is part of what Turkey is obligated to do) and in return we will allow EU chapters to open and direct trade from the port of Famagusta for both GCs and TCs, which will be under UN management. This is a more balanced proposal.
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:22 pm

Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.



http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


First of all all we should point out that what is asked from Turkey is just part of what Turkey is already obligated to do, while our side is not obligated to do anything from what is asked to.

The second thing is to ask: "Then what?"

Turkey is occupying the north part of our country and we need to have some leverage to motivate Turkey and TCs to accept a solution that would liberate Cyprus from the Turkish occupation. What will this leverage be if we accept the above proposals?

The third thing is that even the one point that could make us consider the above proposals, that of Famagusta, is watered down to such a degree that is not so interesting any more. It is talking about giving back to GCs their properties, but not about allowing RoC to take back control of the city. It also talks about UN interim regime to "oversee reconstruction"(???). We are perfectly capable to "oversee reconstruction" ourselves, and since this is a place where TCs have not settled, the city can be given back immediately and directly to RoC. The only reason why this is not proposed is that while ICG wants to remove all our bargaining chips, they don't want to remove even a single one from Turkey.

Therefore these proposals are totally imbalanced on the favor of Turkey, which is what is expected by ICG. The co-founder of ICG, Morton Abramowitz, has been an ambassador to Turkey and he even wrote a book promoting a pro-Turkish American policy.

Turkey should give back Varosha and open its ports and airspace to Cyprus (which is part of what Turkey is obligated to do) and in return we will allow EU chapters to open and direct trade from the port of Famagusta for both GCs and TCs, which will be under UN management. This is a more balanced proposal.


Piratis,you know well that in conflicts like this you cannot sit down and try to balance everything to the nth degree...There has to be compromises and the sides need to make goodwill gestures to foster an atmosphere more conductive to a peaceful settlement...If you try nitpicking you afe only putting obstacles in the way,and everything stops before they get started..This has been the history of our conflict....The ICG is trying to get the two sides to take small steps that will leed to big ones down the road...But obviously you are not interested in any steps towards a solution,big or small... :(
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby Paphitis » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:28 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.



http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


First of all all we should point out that what is asked from Turkey is just part of what Turkey is already obligated to do, while our side is not obligated to do anything from what is asked to.

The second thing is to ask: "Then what?"

Turkey is occupying the north part of our country and we need to have some leverage to motivate Turkey and TCs to accept a solution that would liberate Cyprus from the Turkish occupation. What will this leverage be if we accept the above proposals?

The third thing is that even the one point that could make us consider the above proposals, that of Famagusta, is watered down to such a degree that is not so interesting any more. It is talking about giving back to GCs their properties, but not about allowing RoC to take back control of the city. It also talks about UN interim regime to "oversee reconstruction"(???). We are perfectly capable to "oversee reconstruction" ourselves, and since this is a place where TCs have not settled, the city can be given back immediately and directly to RoC. The only reason why this is not proposed is that while ICG wants to remove all our bargaining chips, they don't want to remove even a single one from Turkey.

Therefore these proposals are totally imbalanced on the favor of Turkey, which is what is expected by ICG. The co-founder of ICG, Morton Abramowitz, has been an ambassador to Turkey and he even wrote a book promoting a pro-Turkish American policy.

Turkey should give back Varosha and open its ports and airspace to Cyprus (which is part of what Turkey is obligated to do) and in return we will allow EU chapters to open and direct trade from the port of Famagusta for both GCs and TCs, which will be under UN management. This is a more balanced proposal.


Piratis,you know well that in conflicts like this you cannot sit down and try to balance everything to the nth degree...There has to be compromises and the sides need to make goodwill gestures to foster an atmosphere more conductive to a peaceful settlement...If you try nitpicking you afe only putting obstacles in the way,and everything stops before they get started..This has been the history of our conflict....The ICG is trying to get the two sides to take small steps that will leed to big ones down the road...But obviously you are not interested in any steps towards a solution,big or small... :(


There is no goodwill from Turkey or the TCs!

There are no compromises from Turkey or the TCs. There are no apologies from Turkey or the TCs.

So the RoC is already 3-0 up at half time!

Your turn!
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Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:54 pm

Republic of Cyprus has proposed that Varoshia should be returned and the Famagusta port operated by both GCs and TCs under UN supervision. If you are interested in steps towards a solution, then accept the proposal.

If you are interested to end all your problems at once then make a proposal that will end all our problems at once as well.
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Paphitis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.



http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


First of all all we should point out that what is asked from Turkey is just part of what Turkey is already obligated to do, while our side is not obligated to do anything from what is asked to.

The second thing is to ask: "Then what?"

Turkey is occupying the north part of our country and we need to have some leverage to motivate Turkey and TCs to accept a solution that would liberate Cyprus from the Turkish occupation. What will this leverage be if we accept the above proposals?

The third thing is that even the one point that could make us consider the above proposals, that of Famagusta, is watered down to such a degree that is not so interesting any more. It is talking about giving back to GCs their properties, but not about allowing RoC to take back control of the city. It also talks about UN interim regime to "oversee reconstruction"(???). We are perfectly capable to "oversee reconstruction" ourselves, and since this is a place where TCs have not settled, the city can be given back immediately and directly to RoC. The only reason why this is not proposed is that while ICG wants to remove all our bargaining chips, they don't want to remove even a single one from Turkey.

Therefore these proposals are totally imbalanced on the favor of Turkey, which is what is expected by ICG. The co-founder of ICG, Morton Abramowitz, has been an ambassador to Turkey and he even wrote a book promoting a pro-Turkish American policy.

Turkey should give back Varosha and open its ports and airspace to Cyprus (which is part of what Turkey is obligated to do) and in return we will allow EU chapters to open and direct trade from the port of Famagusta for both GCs and TCs, which will be under UN management. This is a more balanced proposal.


Piratis,you know well that in conflicts like this you cannot sit down and try to balance everything to the nth degree...There has to be compromises and the sides need to make goodwill gestures to foster an atmosphere more conductive to a peaceful settlement...If you try nitpicking you afe only putting obstacles in the way,and everything stops before they get started..This has been the history of our conflict....The ICG is trying to get the two sides to take small steps that will leed to big ones down the road...But obviously you are not interested in any steps towards a solution,big or small... :(


There is no goodwill from Turkey or the TCs!

There are no compromises from Turkey or the TCs. There are no apologies from Turkey or the TCs.

So the RoC is already 3-0 up at half time!

Your turn!


We are discussing these ICG proposals now...If you would like to contribute,tell us what objections you have to these suggestions being adapted all at once, by both sides...
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