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NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby mem101 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:50 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
mem101 wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.





http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


Some good steps here, I think. I disagree that they should all be implemented simulatneously, though, because it seems like a lot all at once and I think there would be many more who hold Piratis' opinion that the GCs' main bargaining chips would be spent. I think one at a time with a set time frame and order for when each point should be met. Also, I don't understand why Varosha can't simply be handed back to the RoC and lots of crossing ports opened between it and Famagusta in order to create the feeling of a "bicommunal" zone.

I think something which is overlooked in these points is to do something about the settlers; the north can change its immigration, settlement, and naturalisation procedures to be in line with and supported by the EU.


I suppose Turkey also feels they don't want to give up their prime bargaining chip by handing back Varosha...Years ago I made a suggestion that Varosha should be given to UN and opened up to any Cypriot who wants to live together with other Cypriots irrespective of their ethnic background...No one is prepared to think outside the square,it seems... :(


That's exactly the kind of situation I was trying to think up but it might be logistically difficult to put into practice. Anyone who wanted to travel in or out would have to pass through UN checkpoints and then probably trnc and roc checkpoints also. But as you said, no one wants to think outside the box, so even if a good crossing system were proposed it's likely that both sides would have objections - the trnc would insist on TA crossing points and the roc would be too proud to accept as such a "un zone."
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Postby boulio » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:30 pm

i think for direct trade thru famagusta to the EU,VAROSIA should be returned.direct flights thru ercan a 50% slashing of turkish troops in the north.
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Postby humanist » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:02 am

My dear Friend Birkibrisli ..... a TC told me once "it arrogant of you to think you an solve it". I hold very little respect for this person and thank God I have not seen him post on here for a long time.

The point I wish to make to your comments is that referring to the past all the time will not solve it. I think what happened in the 50's, 60's 70's was a set up by the motherships to control, manipulate and oppress the Cypriot people.

To this end if the comments Boomerang has kindly posted are true representation of the TC community today, then they need to call for Eroglu to step down and for a representative of that community to begin the dialogue those comments make with the GC leadership. This should be around representing them and the oppression they feel and have expressed as coming from Turkey an it's interests on the Island of Cyprus none of which is about the TC population.

I like Christofias but that's because I live far away from Cyprus to know the day to day stuff, perhaps it is because I believe in the socialist values as prescribed by forefathers not as exercised by some nations around the world.

I like Christofias because he has made a valid recommendation around the return and rebuilding of Varosha. We exist in a world of capitalism and where work creates wealth. The TC community needs work to create equal wealth to that shared by their compatriots in the free area. Most TC"s now realise that in order to make a living they have to cross the Green Line to work in the free area. In a sense they recognise the RoC.

I also believe that with Eroglu gone and a true unification leader is elected by the TC's they then can argue for the withdrawl of Turkish troops and at the same time demilitarisation of the Island and the dispansion of the RoC national guard with UN and EU guarantees for protection.

Property is a big issue but not really, A great number of people especially those who migrated to Australia and other countries wuld just like to know tey can have their properties back but not really return. To this end I suggest that compensation on today's terms should be offered to those people for the actual buildings but right of return of all land. This should be an initiative taken by the current RoC government.

I strongly oppose flights to Ercan until such day that all Turkish troops have left the island. I also don't think that Cyprus needs three airports but if it will bring peace to the land hey let that one go as well.

That is my litle contribution for today.

Have a lovely day all .... I have a lot of rendering to do and a kitchen to get priced.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:33 am

humanist wrote:My dear Friend Birkibrisli ..... a TC told me once "it arrogant of you to think you an solve it". I hold very little respect for this person and thank God I have not seen him post on here for a long time.

The point I wish to make to your comments is that referring to the past all the time will not solve it. I think what happened in the 50's, 60's 70's was a set up by the motherships to control, manipulate and oppress the Cypriot people.

To this end if the comments Boomerang has kindly posted are true representation of the TC community today, then they need to call for Eroglu to step down and for a representative of that community to begin the dialogue those comments make with the GC leadership. This should be around representing them and the oppression they feel and have expressed as coming from Turkey an it's interests on the Island of Cyprus none of which is about the TC population.

I like Christofias but that's because I live far away from Cyprus to know the day to day stuff, perhaps it is because I believe in the socialist values as prescribed by forefathers not as exercised by some nations around the world.

I like Christofias because he has made a valid recommendation around the return and rebuilding of Varosha. We exist in a world of capitalism and where work creates wealth. The TC community needs work to create equal wealth to that shared by their compatriots in the free area. Most TC"s now realise that in order to make a living they have to cross the Green Line to work in the free area. In a sense they recognise the RoC.

I also believe that with Eroglu gone and a true unification leader is elected by the TC's they then can argue for the withdrawl of Turkish troops and at the same time demilitarisation of the Island and the dispansion of the RoC national guard with UN and EU guarantees for protection.

Property is a big issue but not really, A great number of people especially those who migrated to Australia and other countries wuld just like to know tey can have their properties back but not really return. To this end I suggest that compensation on today's terms should be offered to those people for the actual buildings but right of return of all land. This should be an initiative taken by the current RoC government.

I strongly oppose flights to Ercan until such day that all Turkish troops have left the island. I also don't think that Cyprus needs three airports but if it will bring peace to the land hey let that one go as well.

That is my litle contribution for today.

Have a lovely day all .... I have a lot of rendering to do and a kitchen to get priced.


Hello,dear Andreas...The reason I keep talking about the past is that most people here are in denial...They have been brought up on pure GC propaganda,and are too ready to demonise and vilify the TC community...
If talking about the past does not help,denying the past does not help doubly,if you know what I mean...It would be nice if everything could be reduced to economic imperatives,and all forgotten and forgiven and whatever,but things do not work that way...Traumatised people and communities have special needs to be addressed,and this is what have been missing from the Cyprus equation for a long time...

There is a huge amount of prejudice,bitterness,and outright hatred in both communities that must be worked through before any lasting solution can be achieved...If we are not prepared to put in the hard work and associated discomforts to build undertanding,trust and empathy we do not deserve a united country...We might as well agree that the only solution is partition and work realistically to achieve that...That is not what I want but it seems more and more that that is all we can have... :(
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Postby bill cobbett » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:00 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
humanist wrote:My dear Friend Birkibrisli ..... a TC told me once "it arrogant of you to think you an solve it". I hold very little respect for this person and thank God I have not seen him post on here for a long time.

The point I wish to make to your comments is that referring to the past all the time will not solve it. I think what happened in the 50's, 60's 70's was a set up by the motherships to control, manipulate and oppress the Cypriot people.

To this end if the comments Boomerang has kindly posted are true representation of the TC community today, then they need to call for Eroglu to step down and for a representative of that community to begin the dialogue those comments make with the GC leadership. This should be around representing them and the oppression they feel and have expressed as coming from Turkey an it's interests on the Island of Cyprus none of which is about the TC population.

I like Christofias but that's because I live far away from Cyprus to know the day to day stuff, perhaps it is because I believe in the socialist values as prescribed by forefathers not as exercised by some nations around the world.

I like Christofias because he has made a valid recommendation around the return and rebuilding of Varosha. We exist in a world of capitalism and where work creates wealth. The TC community needs work to create equal wealth to that shared by their compatriots in the free area. Most TC"s now realise that in order to make a living they have to cross the Green Line to work in the free area. In a sense they recognise the RoC.

I also believe that with Eroglu gone and a true unification leader is elected by the TC's they then can argue for the withdrawl of Turkish troops and at the same time demilitarisation of the Island and the dispansion of the RoC national guard with UN and EU guarantees for protection.

Property is a big issue but not really, A great number of people especially those who migrated to Australia and other countries wuld just like to know tey can have their properties back but not really return. To this end I suggest that compensation on today's terms should be offered to those people for the actual buildings but right of return of all land. This should be an initiative taken by the current RoC government.

I strongly oppose flights to Ercan until such day that all Turkish troops have left the island. I also don't think that Cyprus needs three airports but if it will bring peace to the land hey let that one go as well.

That is my litle contribution for today.

Have a lovely day all .... I have a lot of rendering to do and a kitchen to get priced.


Hello,dear Andreas...The reason I keep talking about the past is that most people here are in denial...They have been brought up on pure GC propaganda,and are too ready to demonise and vilify the TC community...
If talking about the past does not help,denying the past does not help doubly,if you know what I mean...It would be nice if everything could be reduced to economic imperatives,and all forgotten and forgiven and whatever,but things do not work that way...Traumatised people and communities have special needs to be addressed,and this is what have been missing from the Cyprus equation for a long time...

There is a huge amount of prejudice,bitterness,and outright hatred in both communities that must be worked through before any lasting solution can be achieved...If we are not prepared to put in the hard work and associated discomforts to build undertanding,trust and empathy we do not deserve a united country...We might as well agree that the only solution is partition and work realistically to achieve that...That is not what I want but it seems more and more that that is all we can have... :(


Bir, may make a helpful suggestion please?...

As well as going on and on about this in each and every post, perhaps you may urge people to add their names to the Inter-Communal Apologies Thread started by our GR of all people last Summer. May also be a chance for CYs and others (like moi) to put on record how much they love each other, when they get off the old, tribal negotiating positions.

Thank You.

sorry ... forgot to post the URL... http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30402
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:54 pm

bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
humanist wrote:My dear Friend Birkibrisli ..... a TC told me once "it arrogant of you to think you an solve it". I hold very little respect for this person and thank God I have not seen him post on here for a long time.

The point I wish to make to your comments is that referring to the past all the time will not solve it. I think what happened in the 50's, 60's 70's was a set up by the motherships to control, manipulate and oppress the Cypriot people.

To this end if the comments Boomerang has kindly posted are true representation of the TC community today, then they need to call for Eroglu to step down and for a representative of that community to begin the dialogue those comments make with the GC leadership. This should be around representing them and the oppression they feel and have expressed as coming from Turkey an it's interests on the Island of Cyprus none of which is about the TC population.

I like Christofias but that's because I live far away from Cyprus to know the day to day stuff, perhaps it is because I believe in the socialist values as prescribed by forefathers not as exercised by some nations around the world.

I like Christofias because he has made a valid recommendation around the return and rebuilding of Varosha. We exist in a world of capitalism and where work creates wealth. The TC community needs work to create equal wealth to that shared by their compatriots in the free area. Most TC"s now realise that in order to make a living they have to cross the Green Line to work in the free area. In a sense they recognise the RoC.

I also believe that with Eroglu gone and a true unification leader is elected by the TC's they then can argue for the withdrawl of Turkish troops and at the same time demilitarisation of the Island and the dispansion of the RoC national guard with UN and EU guarantees for protection.

Property is a big issue but not really, A great number of people especially those who migrated to Australia and other countries wuld just like to know tey can have their properties back but not really return. To this end I suggest that compensation on today's terms should be offered to those people for the actual buildings but right of return of all land. This should be an initiative taken by the current RoC government.

I strongly oppose flights to Ercan until such day that all Turkish troops have left the island. I also don't think that Cyprus needs three airports but if it will bring peace to the land hey let that one go as well.

That is my litle contribution for today.

Have a lovely day all .... I have a lot of rendering to do and a kitchen to get priced.


Hello,dear Andreas...The reason I keep talking about the past is that most people here are in denial...They have been brought up on pure GC propaganda,and are too ready to demonise and vilify the TC community...
If talking about the past does not help,denying the past does not help doubly,if you know what I mean...It would be nice if everything could be reduced to economic imperatives,and all forgotten and forgiven and whatever,but things do not work that way...Traumatised people and communities have special needs to be addressed,and this is what have been missing from the Cyprus equation for a long time...

There is a huge amount of prejudice,bitterness,and outright hatred in both communities that must be worked through before any lasting solution can be achieved...If we are not prepared to put in the hard work and associated discomforts to build undertanding,trust and empathy we do not deserve a united country...We might as well agree that the only solution is partition and work realistically to achieve that...That is not what I want but it seems more and more that that is all we can have... :(


Bir, may make a helpful suggestion please?...

As well as going on and on about this in each and every post, perhaps you may urge people to add their names to the Inter-Communal Apologies Thread started by our GR of all people last Summer. May also be a chance for CYs and others (like moi) to put on record how much they love each other, when they get off the old, tribal negotiating positions.

Thank You.

sorry ... forgot to post the URL... http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30402


Great idea,Bill...It would be nice if people revisited that thread,or if visiting for the first time,tell us what they really think...Lets give love and peace a chance,shall we??? :)
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