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NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:07 am

Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.





http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx
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Postby apc2010 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:15 am

No mention of property ?????
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Postby bill cobbett » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:59 am

OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.
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Postby Hermes » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:44 am

Why should Greek Cypriots, who are the victims of the occupation and partition of their country, be asked to make concessions to Turkey?

This is beyond obscene. How about Turkey meets the obligations demanded of it by the UN and the EU?

There is no chance any of this nonsense will be agreed to. It's just pissing in the wind.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:33 am

apc2010 wrote:No mention of property ?????


I think the idea is to take the easier steps first to built a certain amount of trust and momentum,apc...The world finally realised we will not be coming to any agreement all in One sitting!
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:48 am

bill cobbett wrote:OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.


That is the idea ,Bill...Each side to take unilateral steps to develop a positive environment for an overall settlement..I have no problem with Turkey starting things off...In fact I think it is appropriate that Turkey as the guarantor and the foreign element in the equation should begin...
But then...do you think the RoC will go ahead with step 2:
????

Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:09 am

Hermes wrote:Why should Greek Cypriots, who are the victims of the occupation and partition of their country, be asked to make concessions to Turkey?

This is beyond obscene. How about Turkey meets the obligations demanded of it by the UN and the EU?

There is no chance any of this nonsense will be agreed to. It's just pissing in the wind.


Hermes,

The ICG,a respected international conflict resolution organisation thinks small steps would be best to get things going...I agree,as I am sure others would too...We need to do something to get out of this mess...You are not making concessions to Turkey,you are making concessions for a peaceful settlement...So would Turkey and the TCs...Try to see it that way...We need to think outside the square to have any hope of a lasting agreement...
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby B25 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:59 am

BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.





http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


Birkturk,

not wanting to burst your little bubble, but this has already been discussed here recently and it was torn to shreds.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33396

and in another thread that I can't locate right now.

Try again.
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Re: NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTIVE...

Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:53 am

B25 wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Okey folks,put your constructive,positive caps on and lets discuss,hopefully with an open mind and heart,the latest report on Cyprus by the ICG....


Crisis Group has detailed in four reports since 2006 how the interests of the 1.1 million Cypriots and outside parties would be best met with a comprehensive political settlement. This remains the ideal, but as it is unrealistic in the coming months, the sides should move ahead with unilateral steps such as the following, each of which could build confidence and help establish an environment more conducive to an overall agreement:

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.
•Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.
•Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots should hand back property in the Turkish-military controlled ghost resort of Varosha to its Greek Cypriot owners, subject to a UN interim regime that oversees reconstruction.
•Greek Cypriots should allow charter flights to Ercan Airport in the Turkish Cypriot zone, monitored by the EU.
•Turkey, Greece, the UK and the two Cypriot communities should put in place a mechanism to verify troop numbers on the island. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot leadership should organise with Greek Cypriots a census to determine the exact population of the island and the legal status of its inhabitants.
•Greek Cypriots should cooperate with Turkish Cypriot administrative entities, pending a political settlement. Turkish officials should meet with Greek Cypriot officials, and Turkish Cypriots should be supportive.
•The European Commission, supported by the EU Presidency, should continue to serve as an honest broker to secure agreement on interim steps. Leaders of EU member states should avoid partisan statements at a time when UN talks continue and no one party is being clearly obstructive.





http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ement.aspx


Birkturk,

not wanting to burst your little bubble, but this has already been discussed here recently and it was torn to shreds.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33396

and in another thread that I can't locate right now.

Try again.


I don't have a big ego,you cannot burst my bubble...Lets hear your opinion on these proposals...Since we are going around circles,one more will not do us much harm... 8)
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Postby bill cobbett » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:29 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:OK Bir .... will go along with you... on this step by step approach...

Here's the first step on the list you post...

•Turkey should open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot sea and air traffic, meeting its signed 2005 obligation to implement the Additional Protocol to its EU Customs Union, and also permit Greek Cypriot aircraft to transit its airspace.

An obligation (without pre-conditions) agreed and signed six years ago by Turkey.


That is the idea ,Bill...Each side to take unilateral steps to develop a positive environment for an overall settlement..I have no problem with Turkey starting things off...In fact I think it is appropriate that Turkey as the guarantor and the foreign element in the equation should begin...
But then...do you think the RoC will go ahead with step 2:
????

Greek Cypriots should allow the port of Famagusta to handle Cypriot (including Turkish Cypriot) trade with the EU, under Turkish Cypriot management and EU supervision; end their practice of blocking Turkey’s EU negotiating chapters; and, in the event of trade beginning with Turkey after it implements the Additional Protocol, open up the Green Line to the passage of Turkish goods so that Turkish Cypriots can also benefit.


Well Bir... we seem to have stumbled at the first step.. the Ankara Protocol, a signed and sealed agreement, reneged on by Turkey, but leaving aside the guarantor nonsense you refer to, it's regrettable and worrying that a former member of the UN Sec Council with ambitions to be a major player can't again be trusted to keep its agreements.

But we'll leave that aside for now shall we and get on to the second and third proposed steps, the matter of EU supervised free trade out of Maras/Famagusta and the matter of Varosi... which are vey similar to the proposals put forward by Pres X just before Xmas... proposals that were rejected by Eroglu.

So we're not doing very well mate, Turkey can't be trusted to get on to the first step and Eroglu rejects the next two steps.
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