The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


greek mess

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: greek mess

Postby bsharpish » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:06 am

It's a vast over simplification but, who would you lend money to -

Japan a country where the people have repeatedly shown quiet fortitude in the face of national catastrophe and as a nation pull together and sort it out.
Or
Greece where the sentiment in the streets is - can't pay won't pay, we won't give up our underfunded early pensions, and it's all someone else's fault- let's riot. ( by the way that sounds a lot like the English too)

I know where I'd invest my money
User avatar
bsharpish
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:53 pm
Location: The magical kingdom of Itsasecret

Re: greek mess

Postby Mikiko » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:12 am

Japan is the 3rd largest economy on the world .
User avatar
Mikiko
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Λευκωσία .

Re: greek mess

Postby ZoC » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 am

Mikiko wrote:Japan is the 3rd largest economy on the world .

greece is the third smallest, after the federated states of micronesia and kiribati.
User avatar
ZoC
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: greek mess

Postby ZoC » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:57 am

DT. wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
DT. wrote:
Bananiot wrote:The "Xenoi"! It is always the fault of the foreigners. They are responsible for Greece's never ending problems.


People shouldn't try to comment on things they know very little about.


I am one of them.
I really can't understand why Greece with 144% National dept (as a percentage of GDP) is worse than Japan who has 225%.
The normal seems to be around 50-60%, Italy has 115%. See here:
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/econo ... y-country/
OK Greece now has 300 billion Euros Natioanal Dept would it be OK if she had say 125 billion?
With the new measures it seems they will be reducing their dept by around 10 billion a year, so if they succeed in that they will be ok in about 10 years.

Care to explain us DT, i can trust you more than anyone in this forum.


The main difference between the 2 Pyro is that Japan has issued most of it's debt domestically with a very manageable 1.3% benchmark yields as opposed to the spreads being quoted on Greeces debt. The problem isn't only how much debt a country has, but how expensive is it to service that debt.

The CDS Market however is the one to watch. This is basically a hedging mechanism (sort of an insurance premium) that people pay in order to acquire "insurance" against an investment they've made in case it goes bankrupt. The bigger the risk of default or bankruptcy the more expensive the CDS gets. Consequently, the more expensive the CDS gets, the higher the spreads on that entity's debt.

This is what happened to Lehman brothers when Paulson (small hedge fund manager) decided to start buying CDS against Lehmans and Bear Sterns and transformed a 100 or so million hedge fund into a multi billion dollar hedge fund within 6 months. He was in the Grand Bretagne hotel in Athens before this all broke out holding a seminar on Credit Default Swaps.



just shows u, people shouldn't try to comment on things they know very little about.
User avatar
ZoC
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: greek mess

Postby Mikiko » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:43 pm

FED:Η Ελλάδα μπορεί να διαλύσει όλη την υφήλιο [GRECON] :o

Η ελληνική οικονομική κρίση μπορεί να αποτελέσει μια απειλή για τη σταθερότητα του παγκόσμιου οικονομικού συστήματος, εάν δεν εξευρεθεί μία λύση, βεβαίωσε σήμερα στην Ουάσινγκτον ο πρόεδρος της ομοσπονδιακής Κεντρικής Τράπεζας των Ην. Πολιτειών, της Fed, Μπεν Μπερνάνκι στη διάρκεια συνέντευξης τύπου.

"Αν υπάρξει μία αδυναμία να επιλυθεί η κατάσταση αυτή, τούτο θα αποτελέσει απειλή για τα ευρωπαϊκά οικονομικά συστήματα, το παγκόσμιο οικονομικό σύστημα και για την πολιτική ενότητα στην Ευρώπη", υπογράμμισε ο κ. Μπερνάνκι.

"Νομίζω οι Ευρωπαίοι εκτιμούν την απίστευτη σημασία που έχει το να διευθετήσουν την ελληνική κατάσταση", πρόσθεσε.

"Είναι βέβαια πολύ σπουδαίο. Είναι μία κατάσταση πολύ δύσκολη", εκτίμησε συγχρόνως.

"Βρεθήκαμε σε στενή επαφή με τους ευρωπαίους ομολόγους μας. Φυσικά δεν εμπλέκονται όλοι στις διαβουλεύσεις, που γίνονται, αλλά ενημερωθήκαμε πάρα πολύ καλά", ανέφερε ο κ. Μπερνάνκι.

Η ελληνική οικονομική κατάσταση "απασχόλησε τη συνεδρίαση", που είχαμε στη Fed, χθες Τρίτη και σήμερα, πρόσθεσε. "Αποτελεί έναν από τους οικονομικούς κινδύνους, με τους οποίους βρισκόμαστε αντιμέτωποι".

"Παρακολουθούμε την κατάσταση αυτή από κοντά και κάνουμε το καλύτερο δυνατόν, ώστε οι θεσμοί μας να βρεθούν στην καλύτερη δυνατή θέση σε σχέση με την αποκαλούμενη κρίση χρέους στην περιφέρεια" της ευρωζώνης, πρόσθεσε ο κ. Μπερνάνκι.

"Μια άτακτη χρεοκοπία σε ένα από τα κράτη της περιφέρειας (της ευρωζώνης) θα συντάρασσε χωρίς καμία αμφιβολία τις διεθνείς χρηματαγορές. Αυτό θα είχε με τη σειρά του επιπτώσεις στα περιθώρια για τα επιτόκια δανεισμού, στις τιμές των μετοχών και ούτω καθ εξής", έκρινε ο πρόεδρος της Fed.

"Εξ αυτού, νομίζω ότι οι επιπτώσεις για τις Ην. Πολιτείες θα είναι σε αυτήν την περίπτωση εντελώς σημαντικές" έστω και εάν "η άμεση έκθεσή μας στην ελληνική οικονομική κρίση είναι συγκριτικά μειωμένη", δήλωσε καταλήγοντας ο κ. Μπερνάνκι.



This article is in Greek states that the president of the US Federal Central bank has warned that Greece can dissolve the whole world . There are many big countries that have invested in Greece like France Germany and to a lesser extent UK and US . But If Greece goes bankrupt then others will follow Portugal Spain irelannd maybe .......
User avatar
Mikiko
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Λευκωσία .

Re: greek mess

Postby DT. » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:26 pm

ZoC wrote:
DT. wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
DT. wrote:
Bananiot wrote:The "Xenoi"! It is always the fault of the foreigners. They are responsible for Greece's never ending problems.


People shouldn't try to comment on things they know very little about.


I am one of them.
I really can't understand why Greece with 144% National dept (as a percentage of GDP) is worse than Japan who has 225%.
The normal seems to be around 50-60%, Italy has 115%. See here:
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/econo ... y-country/
OK Greece now has 300 billion Euros Natioanal Dept would it be OK if she had say 125 billion?
With the new measures it seems they will be reducing their dept by around 10 billion a year, so if they succeed in that they will be ok in about 10 years.

Care to explain us DT, i can trust you more than anyone in this forum.


The main difference between the 2 Pyro is that Japan has issued most of it's debt domestically with a very manageable 1.3% benchmark yields as opposed to the spreads being quoted on Greeces debt. The problem isn't only how much debt a country has, but how expensive is it to service that debt.

The CDS Market however is the one to watch. This is basically a hedging mechanism (sort of an insurance premium) that people pay in order to acquire "insurance" against an investment they've made in case it goes bankrupt. The bigger the risk of default or bankruptcy the more expensive the CDS gets. Consequently, the more expensive the CDS gets, the higher the spreads on that entity's debt.

This is what happened to Lehman brothers when Paulson (small hedge fund manager) decided to start buying CDS against Lehmans and Bear Sterns and transformed a 100 or so million hedge fund into a multi billion dollar hedge fund within 6 months. He was in the Grand Bretagne hotel in Athens before this all broke out holding a seminar on Credit Default Swaps.



just shows u, people shouldn't try to comment on things they know very little about.



taxa?
User avatar
DT.
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12196
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:34 pm
Location: Lefkosia

Re: greek mess

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:13 pm

Piratis wrote:
Bananiot wrote:The "Xenoi"! It is always the fault of the foreigners. They are responsible for Greece's never ending problems.

Not correct Bananiot. I don't think anybody places any responsibility to say the Indians or the Mexicans. But there are certain nations who have been robbing the world for centuries and who are responsible for the deaths of millions... you know who they are, your good friends, with whom you collaborate in order to help them to exploit our island.

Greeks are not perfect, but they are far better than many others.


No Foreign Govrnment ever told Greece to pay massive pensions to civil servants or to engage in other costly state funded schemes it could not really afford.
User avatar
supporttheunderdog
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8158
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:03 pm
Location: limassol

Re: greek mess

Postby Jerry » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:47 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Bananiot wrote:The "Xenoi"! It is always the fault of the foreigners. They are responsible for Greece's never ending problems.

Not correct Bananiot. I don't think anybody places any responsibility to say the Indians or the Mexicans. But there are certain nations who have been robbing the world for centuries and who are responsible for the deaths of millions... you know who they are, your good friends, with whom you collaborate in order to help them to exploit our island.

Greeks are not perfect, but they are far better than many others.


No Foreign Govrnment ever told Greece to pay massive pensions to civil servants or to engage in other costly state funded schemes it could not really afford.


No, but they were quite happy to sell arms (what do you think much of the loan money was for) to a country that could not really afford them. Had NATO bothered to put pressure on both Greece and Turkey to sort out their differences instead of selling them both planes and tanks the present crisis would not have occured - but that would have been bad for business. It's a bloody nonsense to include two countries in a "defence" pact and then to supply them with arms to use against each other. Historically the Cyprus Problem is one of the major causes of the Greece/Turkey conflict but instead of insisting that Turkey gives up its hold on the island NATO and the West turn a blind eye to what is going on there 'cos it's bad for business. Greece spends a higher proportion of its GDP on arms than any other European country because it wants to defend itself against its NATO "ally" - it's an effing joke!
Jerry
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 4638
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: UK

Re: greek mess

Postby ZoC » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:44 pm

DT. wrote:
ZoC wrote:
just shows u, people shouldn't try to comment on things they know very little about.



taxa?


taxa, if these financial "experts" really knew wot the f*ck that were talking about, the world wouldn't be in this mess.
User avatar
ZoC
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: greek mess

Postby ZoC » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:45 pm

Jerry wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Bananiot wrote:The "Xenoi"! It is always the fault of the foreigners. They are responsible for Greece's never ending problems.

Not correct Bananiot. I don't think anybody places any responsibility to say the Indians or the Mexicans. But there are certain nations who have been robbing the world for centuries and who are responsible for the deaths of millions... you know who they are, your good friends, with whom you collaborate in order to help them to exploit our island.

Greeks are not perfect, but they are far better than many others.


No Foreign Govrnment ever told Greece to pay massive pensions to civil servants or to engage in other costly state funded schemes it could not really afford.


No, but they were quite happy to sell arms (what do you think much of the loan money was for) to a country that could not really afford them. Had NATO bothered to put pressure on both Greece and Turkey to sort out their differences instead of selling them both planes and tanks the present crisis would not have occured - but that would have been bad for business. It's a bloody nonsense to include two countries in a "defence" pact and then to supply them with arms to use against each other. Historically the Cyprus Problem is one of the major causes of the Greece/Turkey conflict but instead of insisting that Turkey gives up its hold on the island NATO and the West turn a blind eye to what is going on there 'cos it's bad for business. Greece spends a higher proportion of its GDP on arms than any other European country because it wants to defend itself against its NATO "ally" - it's an effing joke!


good point...
User avatar
ZoC
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:29 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest