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Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in June

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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby erolz66 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:47 am

Kikapu wrote: Erolz,

I know you are the eternal optimist anything with the Turkish Lira, the Turkish Economy, ......


Are you sure that it is me that is being 'eternally optimistic' about the state of the Turkish economy ? Are you sure that you do not want to just believe that the Turkish economy is on a long term downward trend and thus you cherry pick any data that supports that which you want to believe and just dismiss and ignore any that that does not ?

Kikapu wrote:What you should look at the most is not the GDP rate, but what is the GDP rate per capita.


gdppc.JPG


Kikapu wrote: Again, using (PPP) gives better figures to the Turkish GDP per capita than conventional GDP per capita, which is significantly lower that GDP based on (PPP).


gdppcppp.JPG


Kikapu wrote:
The past trends are more likely outcome for the future than just making optimistic future predictions by the author just to please the Turkish Government and not get sent to jail for being accused of being a "terrorist" against the state.


Do you really believe this ? You really believe that the author of the report you cited actually believes as you do that the Turkish economy in terms of GDP ranking will continue to slip into the future but decided to say in their report exactly the opposite, because of fear of being sent to jail ? Really ? Are you sure it is me that needs the reality check ?

Kikapu wrote: Happy New Year to you.


and to you.
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby Jerry » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:57 am

Kikapu is absolutely right in his analysis. Most of Turkey's inward investment has come from the EU and that's where about 50% of its exports go because of the favourable terms of the Customs Union. Turkey appears to be distancing itself from the EU and its allies, the projected growth figures do not take this into account. Erdogan's anti US and EU rhetoric could backfire on him, in terms of economic growth Turkey needs the West more than the West needs Turkey.

The TTIP agreement should be taken into account when projections for growth are made.
http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/1361 ... -eu-and-us
http://www.europeaninstitute.org/index. ... talks-1011
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby erolz66 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:16 pm

Jerry wrote:Kikapu is absolutely right in his analysis.


Do you also think he is right in his 'analysis' that the author of the report he cited believes long term Turkey will continue to slip down the GDP rankings but actually said the direct opposite in their report for fear of being jailed ?

Certainly IF Turkey ends its customs union with the EU and fails in agreeing bi lateral free trade agreements with others this will result in a negative impact on Turkish economic growth. These are still 'if's' at this point. What if Turkey does not end it's free trade agreement with the EU and either becomes a party to the EU-US negotiations or negotiates a bi lateral agreement with the US in parallel to these negotiations, what then ?

I personally have no idea or view on if the Turkish economy is on a downward trend or an upwards one in the medium and long terms and I do not really care either way. I do know that the 'evidence' presented by Kikapu when he asserts that it is definitely on a medium and long term downward trend has failed to convince me either way and I remain suspicious that his analysis is based as much on personal prejudice and what he wants to believe as it is on hard data.
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby Lordo » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:42 pm

i look back to the time when terggy had 100 percent interest rates and the currency was 3 million tl to 1 pound. now of course they are building industries of arms production too just like israel has been doing in the last few decades.

long may this downward trend continue. lets face it shitface and his cronies dream terggy will break up. dream on.
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby Jerry » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Do you also think he is right in his 'analysis' that the author of the report he cited believes long term Turkey will continue to slip down the GDP rankings but actually said the direct opposite in their report for fear of being jailed



When you see how many journalists are jailed in Turkey then the answer is yes. I have, in the past, posted comments in the online version of Zaman, since the summer none of my contributions have been published. Zaman rarely publishes any comments from its readers these days, you need to ask yourself why.
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby erolz66 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:57 pm

Jerry wrote:
Do you also think he is right in his 'analysis' that the author of the report he cited believes long term Turkey will continue to slip down the GDP rankings but actually said the direct opposite in their report for fear of being jailed



When you see how many journalists are jailed in Turkey then the answer is yes. I have, in the past, posted comments in the online version of Zaman, since the summer none of my contributions have been published. Zaman rarely publishes any comments from its readers these days, you need to ask yourself why.


The report was produced by the CEBR (Centre for Economics and Business Research) which is based in the UK

http://www.cebr.com/about-cebr/

You really think they said the opposite of what they actually think re the future of Turkey's GDP rankings because of fear of being arrested ? I am sorry and I am not trying to be obtuse here, but is this a serious argument ? That the CBER produced a report on World Economic League Table 2015 Highlights and in that report they predicted that Turkey would reach 14th in the rankings by 2030 but really they believed the opposite of this and only said that in their report because of fear of arrest. Can you see why I find it hard to consider that argument credible ?
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby Jerry » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:34 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Jerry wrote:
Do you also think he is right in his 'analysis' that the author of the report he cited believes long term Turkey will continue to slip down the GDP rankings but actually said the direct opposite in their report for fear of being jailed



When you see how many journalists are jailed in Turkey then the answer is yes. I have, in the past, posted comments in the online version of Zaman, since the summer none of my contributions have been published. Zaman rarely publishes any comments from its readers these days, you need to ask yourself why.


The report was produced by the CEBR (Centre for Economics and Business Research) which is based in the UK

http://www.cebr.com/about-cebr/

You really think they said the opposite of what they actually think re the future of Turkey's GDP rankings because of fear of being arrested ? I am sorry and I am not trying to be obtuse here, but is this a serious argument ? That the CBER produced a report on World Economic League Table 2015 Highlights and in that report they predicted that Turkey would reach 14th in the rankings by 2030 but really they believed the opposite of this and only said that in their report because of fear of arrest. Can you see why I find it hard to consider that argument credible ?


Based in UK maybe but Hülya Güler, Istanbul is the name at the top of the report. At the risk of appearing obtuse I assume he is Turkish and lives in Turkey.
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby erolz66 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:01 pm

Jerry wrote: Based in UK maybe but Hülya Güler, Istanbul is the name at the top of the report. At the risk of appearing obtuse I assume he is Turkish and lives in Turkey.


The report was produced by CEBR. THEY are the ones that predict in this report that Turkey would reach 14th in the GDP rankings by 2030. Hülya Güler is a Turkish journalist working for a Turkish daily newspaper. She wrote an article about the CEBR report but she is NOT the one who created that report and is NOT the one who is predicting Turkey would reach 14th in the GDP rankings by 2030. Again I am sorry but this 'argument' makes no sense what so ever. Hülya Güler merely reports on what the CEBR report says. If the CEBR report itself made no predictions about Turkeys rank in the future and if Hülya Güler herself had added that to her piece about the CEBR report, then your and kikapu's argument that is was done so out of 'fear' would have some credence. However this is so manifestly NOT the case here. Sorry. You do understand the difference between the authors of the report and a journalist that writes a story about that report ?
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby Jerry » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:32 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Jerry wrote: Based in UK maybe but Hülya Güler, Istanbul is the name at the top of the report. At the risk of appearing obtuse I assume he is Turkish and lives in Turkey.


The report was produced by CEBR. THEY are the ones that predict in this report that Turkey would reach 14th in the GDP rankings by 2030. Hülya Güler is a Turkish journalist working for a Turkish daily newspaper. She wrote an article about the CEBR report but she is NOT the one who created that report and is NOT the one who is predicting Turkey would reach 14th in the GDP rankings by 2030. Again I am sorry but this 'argument' makes no sense what so ever. Hülya Güler merely reports on what the CEBR report says. If the CEBR report itself made no predictions about Turkeys rank in the future and if Hülya Güler herself had added that to her piece about the CEBR report, then your and kikapu's argument that is was done so out of 'fear' would have some credence. However this is so manifestly NOT the case here. Sorry. You do understand the difference between the authors of the report and a journalist that writes a story about that report ?


Sorry, the journalist does not write a story about the CEBR report, she summarises its content. Where does she make any comment - good or bad about the report? Lacking any critical remarks her "story" could be interpreted as spreading anti-Turkish propaganda, whether she wrote it or not. One has to ask oneself why she copied it to Hurriyet, let's hope the Turkish authorities don't ask the same question.

Turkey's media crackdown is being noticed in other places, http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_tu ... 67325.html
Personally I couldn't give a shit about what happens in that oppressive state but the government's increasingly authoritarian attitude towards its own people is bound to be felt in Cyprus.
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Re: Turkey's Foreign trade deficit soars by 79.2 percent in

Postby Kikapu » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:06 am

erolz66 wrote:
Kikapu wrote: Erolz,

I know you are the eternal optimist anything with the Turkish Lira, the Turkish Economy, ......


Are you sure that it is me that is being 'eternally optimistic' about the state of the Turkish economy ? Are you sure that you do not want to just believe that the Turkish economy is on a long term downward trend and thus you cherry pick any data that supports that which you want to believe and just dismiss and ignore any that that does not ?

Kikapu wrote:What you should look at the most is not the GDP rate, but what is the GDP rate per capita.




Kikapu wrote: Again, using (PPP) gives better figures to the Turkish GDP per capita than conventional GDP per capita, which is significantly lower that GDP based on (PPP).




Kikapu wrote:
The past trends are more likely outcome for the future than just making optimistic future predictions by the author just to please the Turkish Government and not get sent to jail for being accused of being a "terrorist" against the state.


Do you really believe this ? You really believe that the author of the report you cited actually believes as you do that the Turkish economy in terms of GDP ranking will continue to slip into the future but decided to say in their report exactly the opposite, because of fear of being sent to jail ? Really ? Are you sure it is me that needs the reality check ?

Kikapu wrote: Happy New Year to you.


and to you.


Erolz,

Please read this report from November 2014 on how Turkey manipulates it's GDP per capita and anything else with her economy just to make things look rosy, such as it's so called 10% unemployment, when in reality using norms for the west in calculating the index, it is more like 30%-40%, since most women in Turkey do not work and are not considered potential workers. Let not forget the loss of one's income in Turkey by almost 10% to inflation alone and much more when buying foreign goods as imports due to loss of the Turkish Lira's value. The charts you have posted by "traidingeconomics.com" only show the figures given to them by Turkey and not the reality as it is. As the saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out"!

By the way, police raided Today’s Zaman and had many journalists arrested for terrorism soon after this report was released. Just coincidence you say?

Turkey to revise per capita GDP amid income trap debates

November 30, 2014, Sunday/ 17:24:23/ TODAY'S ZAMAN / ISTANBUL

Turkey's official statistics agency says it is preparing for a revision in calculating the country's per capita gross domestic product (GDP), a step that it expects will put the average income figures at a higher level.

The decision comes amid criticism by economists that Turkey is stuck in the middle-income trap, adding that the emerging country's per capita income in dollar terms has stalled for seven years. Turkish Statistics Institute (TurkStat) Chairman Birol Aydemir told reporters over the weekend in Ankara that the agency “will recalculate Turkey's income per capita, using a more diversified calculation system with increased data.”

The TurkStat move has been criticized for being politically motivated, aimed at making per capita income look higher. Others said this plan seeks to boost the government's popularity, particularly among the middle class, ahead of parliamentary elections scheduled for June 2015. TurkStat, however, rejects such criticisms, and says it is not trying to give a better picture of the country's current economic condition, citing other European countries that have recently made similar revisions in per capita GDP. TurkStat says it needs to adjust its calculations in line with Eurostat standards.

One critical factor is Turkey's lingering deep income inequality. According to Credit Suisse's Global Wealth Report 2014, released in October, the gap between Turkey's rich and poor continues to expand, with 10 percent of the population holding 78 percent of the total wealth in the country. The monthly minimum wage in Turkey stands at TL 891 ($391), while the country's jobless rate was 10.1 percent in August.

The government plans to lift Turkey from about 17th into the top 10 global economies, with a per capita income of $25,000, by 2023 -- the 100th anniversary of the foundation of the modern state. Market experts, however, warn that these goals are too ambitious to realize given the current economic performance of the country even though falling oil prices have recently helped improve external balances, a major weak point for the Turkish economy. GDP stood at $1.44 trillion in 2013, according to International Monetary Fund (IMF) calculations.

After rising in leaps and bounds between 2002 and 2007, Turkey's per capita income in dollar terms has stalled at around $11,000 since 2007. Likewise, foreign direct investment (FDI) peaked the same year at $22 billion, and has since hovered around $12-13 billion a year.
According to the IMF, Turkey ranks 62nd on a list of 183 countries sorted by their per capita GDP, while the World Bank puts the country in 68th place among 189, both 2013 listings. The listing by global organizations do not take into account differences in the cost of living, and GDP per capita can also vary based on fluctuations in the exchange rates of the country's currency.

Reform calls
Without TurkStat's revision, income per capita was expected to fall $270 from 2013 to $10,572 this year. Following the revision, however, the figure surges by nearly $1,500 at once, bringing the GDP per capita to the level that was originally targeted for 2017.
TurkStat made a similar revision back in 2008, boosting the GDP per capita figures by $2,000 in one day.

Aydemir, meanwhile, has complained that the rich and educated parts of Turkish society have failed to file their wealth correctly with the public offices. “We have to raise awareness and use other data. …people are not sharing the exact size of their income and wealth with the state,” he asserted. His comments underline the discrepancies in Turkey's tax collection system. Market experts warn that Turkey has to implement structural reforms, such as more comprehensive tax collection, if it wants to reduce poverty and empower the middle class amid falling growth rates. The country's lopsided tax system draws two-thirds of its revenue from indirect taxes while collecting only a small portion of income tax from wealthier people.

Turkey has failed to introduce an effective reform package to maintain a steady improvement in its per capita GDP, Turkish Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges (TOBB) Chairman Rifat Hisarcıklıoğlu said last week.
A set of planned economic reforms introduced by Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu earlier this month have yet to come to life, while observers say they doubt the reforms will remedy Turkey's long-standing structural weaknesses.

http://www.todayszaman.com/national_tur ... 65770.html
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