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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby AEKTZIS » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:07 pm

that is part of the beauty of language. A linguist looks at that word and thinks it is wonderful. The german word for cemetery is "Friedhof" - literally "Place of peace".

Also you are overlooking something very important here. You use it to imply Greek language is weak and primitive, but actually it is part of the development of every known language that has ever existed in mankind.

The word "kite", as you chose as an example. It is from the old english word for "eagle" - "kita". This is how languages develop. Why would someone name something he has seen for the first time, as something brand new, invent a funky new name for something and hope it catches on? That is not how language works.

The word "kite" means "flying tethered paper aircraft" because hundreds of years ago, people saw it and thought "eagle!" and that word caught on after hundreds of uses.

Likewise when Greeks saw a kite they thought "paper eagle!" and that word caught on generation after generation. In trying to show a weakness of Greek language, you have showed how language is a beautiful development taking hundreds of years. The fact that we still have the word "xartaetos" and know it to mean "paper eagle" shows how strong and rich the greek language is - nobody in England is able to understand old english - nobody in England would realise "kite" is a derivation of the old english for "eagle".
Last edited by AEKTZIS on Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby kurupetos » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:42 pm

Cap wrote:What is the Greek word for 'kite'?

Πετάσι :lol:
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby bill cobbett » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:22 am

AEKTZIS wrote:that is part of the beauty of language. A linguist looks at that word and thinks it is wonderful. The german word for cemetery is "Friedhof" - literally "Place of peace".

Also you are overlooking something very important here. You use it to imply Greek language is weak and primitive, but actually it is part of the development of every known language that has ever existed in mankind.

The word "kite", as you chose as an example. It is from the old english word for "eagle" - "kita". This is how languages develop. Why would someone name something he has seen for the first time, as something brand new, invent a funky new name for something and hope it catches on? That is not how language works.

The word "kite" means "flying tethered paper aircraft" because hundreds of years ago, people saw it and though "eagle!" and that word caught on after hundreds of uses.

Likewise when Greeks saw a kite they thought "paper eagle!" and that word caught on generation after generation. In trying to show a weakness of Greek language, you have showed how language is a beautiful development taking hundreds of years. The fact that we still have the word "xartaetos" and know it to mean "paper eagle" shows how strong and rich the greek language is - nobody in England is able to understand old english - nobody in England would realise "kite" is a derivation of the old english for "eagle".



Reh Aektis... stick to the greek language mate and leave matters of the English language to its native speakers...

The claim is "nobody in England would realise "kite" is a derivation of the old english for "eagle".... well may come as a surprise then to find out that the word "kite" is still very much in current and popular modern usage for a group of birds of prey that are collectively called "Kites". There are some dozen or so kinds of Kites, maybe more.

The English word "kite" isn't as you claim a derivation of the Old English for "eagle". Looking at the OED, in the bird context "kite" has a separate etymology from the English word "eagle". Two different words for two different meanings with two different etymologies.

Here, for those with an interest, according to the OED is the first recorded usage of the word "kite" as a flying toy and it's def a ref to the flying toy Kite resembling the bird Kite.

It's from 1664 ... S. Butler Hudibras ii. iii. 161 As a Boy, one night, Did fly his Tarsel of a Kite.

(believe the ref to Tarsel is one to "tassel")

By the way was very, very lucky, many years ago to see a Red Kite in flight for a few seconds in Wales. A very rare sighting at the time, but understand they have increased in numbers in recent years.
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:45 pm

Cap wrote:From experience: Since Greece has contributed virtually zero to science, engineering and automotive mechanics I've discovered that..


Be careful making statements like that. Why, even Schrodinger, responsible for some of the greatest contributions in Physics and Genetics, to date, never failed to attribute his work to a study of scientific thought deriving from the Greeks. He pointed out the shortcomings in modern scientists when they fail to see the continuation of Greek scientific practice - much like you! :)
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby Cap » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:21 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Cap wrote:From experience: Since Greece has contributed virtually zero to science, engineering and automotive mechanics I've discovered that..


Be careful making statements like that. Why, even Schrodinger, responsible for some of the greatest contributions in Physics and Genetics, to date, never failed to attribute his work to a study of scientific thought deriving from the Greeks. He pointed out the shortcomings in modern scientists when they fail to see the continuation of Greek scientific practice - much like you! :)


Knew Oracle would have her say. Champion defender of Hellenic ideals :D
I was expecting a more detailed response though O.
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby kurupetos » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:56 pm

Cap wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Cap wrote:From experience: Since Greece has contributed virtually zero to science, engineering and automotive mechanics I've discovered that..


Be careful making statements like that. Why, even Schrodinger, responsible for some of the greatest contributions in Physics and Genetics, to date, never failed to attribute his work to a study of scientific thought deriving from the Greeks. He pointed out the shortcomings in modern scientists when they fail to see the continuation of Greek scientific practice - much like you! :)


Knew Oracle would have her say. Champion defender of Hellenic ideals :D
I was expecting a more detailed response though O.

Oracle? :shock: :?
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:40 pm

Cap wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Cap wrote:From experience: Since Greece has contributed virtually zero to science, engineering and automotive mechanics I've discovered that..


Be careful making statements like that. Why, even Schrodinger, responsible for some of the greatest contributions in Physics and Genetics, to date, never failed to attribute his work to a study of scientific thought deriving from the Greeks. He pointed out the shortcomings in modern scientists when they fail to see the continuation of Greek scientific practice - much like you! :)


Knew Oracle would have her say. Champion defender of Hellenic ideals :D
I was expecting a more detailed response though O.


I'm not out to insult your intelligence with a detailed response. You can follow this up if your curiosity is awakened. You know, you don't have to jump on the anti-Greek bandwagon all the time. :wink:
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby AEKTZIS » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:33 pm

bill cobbett wrote:
AEKTZIS wrote:that is part of the beauty of language. A linguist looks at that word and thinks it is wonderful. The german word for cemetery is "Friedhof" - literally "Place of peace".

Also you are overlooking something very important here. You use it to imply Greek language is weak and primitive, but actually it is part of the development of every known language that has ever existed in mankind.

The word "kite", as you chose as an example. It is from the old english word for "eagle" - "kita". This is how languages develop. Why would someone name something he has seen for the first time, as something brand new, invent a funky new name for something and hope it catches on? That is not how language works.

The word "kite" means "flying tethered paper aircraft" because hundreds of years ago, people saw it and though "eagle!" and that word caught on after hundreds of uses.

Likewise when Greeks saw a kite they thought "paper eagle!" and that word caught on generation after generation. In trying to show a weakness of Greek language, you have showed how language is a beautiful development taking hundreds of years. The fact that we still have the word "xartaetos" and know it to mean "paper eagle" shows how strong and rich the greek language is - nobody in England is able to understand old english - nobody in England would realise "kite" is a derivation of the old english for "eagle".



Reh Aektis... stick to the greek language mate and leave matters of the English language to its native speakers...

The claim is "nobody in England would realise "kite" is a derivation of the old english for "eagle".... well may come as a surprise then to find out that the word "kite" is still very much in current and popular modern usage for a group of birds of prey that are collectively called "Kites". There are some dozen or so kinds of Kites, maybe more.

The English word "kite" isn't as you claim a derivation of the Old English for "eagle". Looking at the OED, in the bird context "kite" has a separate etymology from the English word "eagle". Two different words for two different meanings with two different etymologies.

Here, for those with an interest, according to the OED is the first recorded usage of the word "kite" as a flying toy and it's def a ref to the flying toy Kite resembling the bird Kite.

It's from 1664 ... S. Butler Hudibras ii. iii. 161 As a Boy, one night, Did fly his Tarsel of a Kite.

(believe the ref to Tarsel is one to "tassel")

By the way was very, very lucky, many years ago to see a Red Kite in flight for a few seconds in Wales. A very rare sighting at the time, but understand they have increased in numbers in recent years.


English is my native tongue, as is Greek. I grew up speaking both at home and at school.

And I stand by my initial statement. You seriously think if I approached 100 people on my high street and asked them the origin of the word "kite", a sizeable proportion would know the origin? No chance, you are living in a dream world.

Maximum 5 out of 100 would know the word's origin.

Oh, and fuck the queen. Killer of our heroes.
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby bill cobbett » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:58 pm

Well excoooooose me but you gave the example of the word kite (as a flying toy) to back up a deeper greek nationalist claim and put forward a dodgy etymology for it... you've been shown to be incorrect with an easy and simple reference to the OED, a little better research is always good.

Now, let's look at another of your claims, a particularly ludicrous one, when you say in an unattractive nationalist way, that the Greek Language...

....is part of the development of every known language that has ever existed in mankind.

... and you try telling that to the good people of China, India, South-East Asia, Sub-saharan Africa etc etc and they'll think you're potty... and did human language really start 2,500 years ago!!!!

Ever thought of seeing a therapist Aektziz? ... drop in to the CF Clinic and we'll prescribe something for you... cyprus35943.html

Oh.... and one last thing please, show some respect for the republicans in GB... she ain't the "queen"... just plain Mrs Windsor.
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Re: Learning to speak...

Postby kurupetos » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:00 pm

Am I the only Cypriot here? In Cyprus kite is called petasi. (bedasee, in charlocypriot syllabary :lol: ) :wink:
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