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This should be a start

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Mills Chapman » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:31 pm

I hope it doesn't look like I'm taking sides here, but as long as Viewpoint's comments are not considered, this discussion is only taking place among GCs, and eventually TCs' views will have to be considered as well.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:04 am

Mills Chapman, what exactly do you mean by "considered"?
Of course we listen to what TCs say. Viewpoint's viewpoint is a well known extreme one.
However if by "consider" you mean that we should accept something because somebody demands it even if this something is against the human and democratic rights of the majority of this island then I disagree.

People such as Viewpoint are of the mentality: "We won the war, we have the power, we will force what we want". So sorry, but such kind of attitude that shows no respect to legality and human rights can not be seriously considered.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:28 am

Piratis wrote:Mills Chapman, what exactly do you mean by "considered"?
Of course we listen to what TCs say. Viewpoint's viewpoint is a well known extreme one.
However if by "consider" you mean that we should accept something because somebody demands it even if this something is against the human and democratic rights of the majority of this island then I disagree.

People such as Viewpoint are of the mentality: "We won the war, we have the power, we will force what we want". So sorry, but such kind of attitude that shows no respect to legality and human rights can not be seriously considered.


Very interesting but ho so wrong, please go back to square one and try harder and think methodically, because I currently support recognized partition for land which I must remind youthat you to have supported on occassions, this is just another form of solution, yet you label me as someone who doesnt respect legality and human rights. I have time and time again tried to explain that since the whole Annan plan/referendum attempt and the lack of maturity shown, I hold out no hope of unification and see that as time progresses the 2 communites are going in opposite directions to find a solution that they would both support. The arguements can go on for another 100 years and we Cypriots do not have either the will or the desire to resolve matters, the 2 communites have their own agendas and therefore do not want to unite. The only way imo for us to bring this whole issue to a close is to agree return of land for recognition and live on this beautiful island as very good neighbours.
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Postby Mills Chapman » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:40 am

By "considered," I meant to just look at the concepts proposed by the person without regarding that person's past on this forum or anywhere else. For example, if a war crimes criminal were to propose something, I would say, "Let's look at the proposal itself before we dismiss it just because of the person who said it."

I don't know the history of Viewpoint's previous posts, and from looking at what Viewpoint said, those words don't seem too radical for a TC to say. Sure, this post by Viewpoint might be inflammatory compared to what a GC might say, but are they inflammatory to what another TC might say here? Since there are no other TCs stepping forward to contribute to this thread, my thought is to wait on critiquing Viewpoint's comments - wait until there is another TC post to compare it to.

Hopefully that answers your question.
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Postby bg_turk » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:19 pm

Harry wrote:And embargoes wouldn't be lifted till every GC gets their property back. Till then they can only sell their goods through us or the way their trading right now, which is very minimal. Let them have thier choice.Not because we're power mongers the way they claim that we are, its the only way I see it being fare.


A significant portion of GC properties in the North are used to accomodate the needs of TC refugees who have been forced from their own homes. Are you saying that these refugees should not be able to take advantage of these funds because in effect they are "exploiting" GC properties?

If so this means that roughly 50% of TCs, mostly refugees, will not be able to take advantage of these founds, since every second TC has his home and land in the South and cannot return as he/she is prevented from claiming back his/her land by the RoC under the pretext that refugee housing is built on it.
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Postby bg_turk » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:29 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Harry why do you have problems dealing with my viewpoint, isnt it allowed? or does it make you so uncomfortable that you have to refrain from responding. If you are confident that negotiations will recommence and they will find a solution then you should not be offended or upset with someone where reality has kicked home and is more pesimistic than optimistic like yourself.


Viewpoint,

your views are perfectly legitimate and in fact as far as I can see your pessimism is not unjustified. What 65% of TCs have experienced during the last few years can as well be qualified as a slap in the face while their hand was still extended in peace, and this bitter experience has driven many away from unification, and closer to those 35% of your compatriots that have chosen never again to trust GCs. You are revealing the view of many TCs that Piratis and Kifeas would rather not hear. For them you are just an inconvenience that doesn't fit in their strictly legalistic but flawed approach to the problem.
Papadoupolos and his followers, I am afraid, will never see the merits of dialogue! They want TCs to shut up so that they can continue their monologue of "full return to legality". They refuse to talk to TCs, and if TCs attempt to express their concerns they dismiss them as hardliners.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:05 pm

bg_turk wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Harry why do you have problems dealing with my viewpoint, isnt it allowed? or does it make you so uncomfortable that you have to refrain from responding. If you are confident that negotiations will recommence and they will find a solution then you should not be offended or upset with someone where reality has kicked home and is more pesimistic than optimistic like yourself.


Viewpoint,

your views are perfectly legitimate and in fact as far as I can see your pessimism is not unjustified. What 65% of TCs have experienced during the last few years can as well be qualified as a slap in the face while their hand was still extended in peace, and this bitter experience has driven many away from unification, and closer to those 35% of your compatriots that have chosen never again to trust GCs. You are revealing the view of many TCs that Piratis and Kifeas would rather not hear. For them you are just an inconvenience that doesn't fit in their strictly legalistic but flawed approach to the problem.
Papadoupolos and his followers, I am afraid, will never see the merits of dialogue! They want TCs to shut up so that they can continue their monologue of "full return to legality". They refuse to talk to TCs, and if TCs attempt to express their concerns they dismiss them as hardliners.


To be honest bg_turk Im waiting for GCs to express points that reduce my pessisim and give me reason to trust them. But as you can read for yourself their arguements are nothing more than an extention of the Tassos syndrome of we have the legal high ground and EU why should we talk direct to TCs like we are not the people they have to live with if there was ever a solution. You are very right in your analysis of Piratis and Kifeas they hate what I have to say and try to insult me persoanally rather than try to understand why I saying what Im saying which is not what they want to hear because they are so stuck in their moulds that they are unable to come to terms with anything that would mean we are to considered equal to them not just politcial but as people who should also have an equal voice...well have I got news for them TCs are not going shut up anymore and as time passes the next 10 to 20 years will see developments in the TRNC which they will not like one little bit. Then they can run to Tassos and ask him what about our legal rights???
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Postby Piratis » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:57 pm

A significant portion of GC properties in the North are used to accomodate the needs of TC refugees who have been forced from their own homes. Are you saying that these refugees should not be able to take advantage of these funds because in effect they are "exploiting" GC properties?

Bg_turk, if the TCs are refugees then why they support the illegality, the violations of human rights and the ethnic cleansing? They could stop being refugees by supporting the end of occupations and the return to legality.

They do not support this because they went to the occupied areas to grab twice as much as they left behind. This is why they support illegality, because legally they would have to return what they grabbed, and get only what they had before 74.

Hardliners are those that demand something against human rights, against democracy and they support ethnic cleansing and racist discriminations. There are principles that can not be compromised, and would not be compromised by any self-respecting people anywhere in the world. (which is why the things that the TCs demand from us exist in no other country)
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