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Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby kimon07 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:01 am

supporttheunderdog wrote: A former RN submariner told me the term used for any surface ship was target. However Turkey has 14 similar type 209 Submarines and must thus arguably also be considered as having one of the most advanced Submarine Fleets in the World, with a numerical superiority over Greece. We should not therefore underestimate the potential capability of the Turkish navy.


I can not disagree with you on the above. And the situation is getting worse given the economic problems of Greece and the cuts on the defence budget against the tremendous amounts spent by Turkey for its armed forces. But coming back to modern submarines in the Med, recently Israel acquired 2 type 214/1400 (one more under constructio) which are similar to the Greek Papanikolis type and those ordered by Turkey (AIP system) the capabilities of which, though, (in respect to the weapons they can launch) are far better than both the Greek and the Turkish units.

The cruise missiles are believed to have a range of 1,500 km (930 mi)[7] and may be equipped with conventional warheads or a 200-kilogram (440 lb) nuclear warhead containing anything up to 6 kilograms (13 lb) of plutonium.[8][9] The latter, if true, would provide Israel with an offshore second strike capability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_class_submarine
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:57 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:No disrepect intended to the Hellenic navy and certainly not to the skill proffesionalism and expertise of the seafarers Unfortunately the Turkish navy appears to be far larger being equipped with a large number of former American ships as well as French and German built ships, and home built copies. Some of this may well flow from Turkey being a neighbour with Russia and seen as a more in the Front line by the USA as well as being a larger customer. In the hands of The current regime and its neo ottoman imperialist policies these represent a major threat to regional peace.

Of more concern to me are the Turkish landing craft which are obviously intended for Agressive action.


The Hellenic navy has far greater capacity and capability although I have not been keeping track the last 2 years or so.

Certainly, they seem to have the upper hand in the Aegean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ac ... Navy_ships

As to Landing Craft, just 2-3 submarines can sort that out and Greece has one of the most advance Submarine Fleets in the world.

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/gr ... abilities/

The mentality of Turkey having the upper hand must go.

A former RN submariner told me the term used for any surface ship was target. However Turkey has 14 similar type 209 Submarines and must thus arguably also be considered as having one of the most advanced Submarine Fleets in the World, with a numerical superiority over Greece. We should not therefore underestimate the potential capability of the Turkish navy.


Yes I agree, the Submarine Fleet is where it's at. It will be these that decide any outcome in the Aegean.

You must also understand that it is not about numerical advantage. It is about the capability these vessels have. Cyprus for instance doesn't need more than 2 or 3 to defend itself. The Greek Fleet will dominate the Aegean, and the Turkish Fleet will need to run the gauntlet.

Many analysts actually rate Greece very highly.
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:58 am

kimon07 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Never mind direct comparisons between Greece and Turkey. We're in the EU now and the sole reason for entering is that our capabilities have increased many-fold. The EU was formulated so that Europe may never face war again, among its members, and this has not been tested yet. Turkey's verbal threats are likely to stay as such as for the first time, threatening Greece with anything more than rhetoric, means she will face 500 Million, not 10 Million!

I am afraid you give the EU more credit than it diserves. What did they do during the Imia crisis? What do they do or say in respect to the occupation of 40% of an EU state by Turkey? Nothing. They keep opening accession negotiation chapters with it.


That is the best post from you in a long time.

Well done.

Some people really do need to open their eyes.
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby Oceanside50 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:12 am

Paphitis wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Never mind direct comparisons between Greece and Turkey. We're in the EU now and the sole reason for entering is that our capabilities have increased many-fold. The EU was formulated so that Europe may never face war again, among its members, and this has not been tested yet. Turkey's verbal threats are likely to stay as such as for the first time, threatening Greece with anything more than rhetoric, means she will face 500 Million, not 10 Million!

I am afraid you give the EU more credit than it diserves. What did they do during the Imia crisis? What do they do or say in respect to the occupation of 40% of an EU state by Turkey? Nothing. They keep opening accession negotiation chapters with it.


That is the best post from you in a long time.

Well done.

Some people really do need to open their eyes.


The EU at the moment is nothing more then an economic entity..in reality it can't even form an army due to the fact that most of their weapons are Part of NATO .. The USA and Turkey have already said no, until All members are NATO ie.. Cyprus. Therefore an Eu army coming to save Cyprus is nonsense.. :roll: ...
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby kimon07 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:40 am

Oceanside50 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Never mind direct comparisons between Greece and Turkey. We're in the EU now and the sole reason for entering is that our capabilities have increased many-fold. The EU was formulated so that Europe may never face war again, among its members, and this has not been tested yet. Turkey's verbal threats are likely to stay as such as for the first time, threatening Greece with anything more than rhetoric, means she will face 500 Million, not 10 Million!

I am afraid you give the EU more credit than it diserves. What did they do during the Imia crisis? What do they do or say in respect to the occupation of 40% of an EU state by Turkey? Nothing. They keep opening accession negotiation chapters with it.


That is the best post from you in a long time.

Well done.

Some people really do need to open their eyes.


The EU at the moment is nothing more then an economic entity.....


Banking-Monetary entity I would say!
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:31 pm

A comment on the idea of an EU armyhttp://www.lithuaniatribune.com/43527/eu-military-committee-rejects-the-idea-of-a-european-army-201343527/

The EU is on the one hand promoting itself as a unified body but this general seems to talk about nationalistic interests.
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:40 pm

Paphitis wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:No disrepect intended to the Hellenic navy and certainly not to the skill proffesionalism and expertise of the seafarers Unfortunately the Turkish navy appears to be far larger being equipped with a large number of former American ships as well as French and German built ships, and home built copies. Some of this may well flow from Turkey being a neighbour with Russia and seen as a more in the Front line by the USA as well as being a larger customer. In the hands of The current regime and its neo ottoman imperialist policies these represent a major threat to regional peace.

Of more concern to me are the Turkish landing craft which are obviously intended for Agressive action.


The Hellenic navy has far greater capacity and capability although I have not been keeping track the last 2 years or so.

Certainly, they seem to have the upper hand in the Aegean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ac ... Navy_ships

As to Landing Craft, just 2-3 submarines can sort that out and Greece has one of the most advance Submarine Fleets in the world.

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/gr ... abilities/

The mentality of Turkey having the upper hand must go.

A former RN submariner told me the term used for any surface ship was target. However Turkey has 14 similar type 209 Submarines and must thus arguably also be considered as having one of the most advanced Submarine Fleets in the World, with a numerical superiority over Greece. We should not therefore underestimate the potential capability of the Turkish navy.


Yes I agree, the Submarine Fleet is where it's at. It will be these that decide any outcome in the Aegean.

You must also understand that it is not about numerical advantage. It is about the capability these vessels have. Cyprus for instance doesn't need more than 2 or 3 to defend itself. The Greek Fleet will dominate the Aegean, and the Turkish Fleet will need to run the gauntlet.

Many analysts actually rate Greece very highly.
I do not disagree with any such assessments about the Capability of the Greek armed forces. I simply comment on the numbers.
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:50 pm

kimon07 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Never mind direct comparisons between Greece and Turkey. We're in the EU now and the sole reason for entering is that our capabilities have increased many-fold. The EU was formulated so that Europe may never face war again, among its members, and this has not been tested yet. Turkey's verbal threats are likely to stay as such as for the first time, threatening Greece with anything more than rhetoric, means she will face 500 Million, not 10 Million!

I am afraid you give the EU more credit than it diserves. What did they do during the Imia crisis? What do they do or say in respect to the occupation of 40% of an EU state by Turkey? Nothing. They keep opening accession negotiation chapters with it.


Any problems created at Imia were due to the anachronistic membership of both countries to NATO. Today the islands are regarded as of Greek sovereignty.

As for the 40% occupation of Cyprus; we went into the EU with a ceasefire in operation so the conditions have to be right before the ceasefire is broken, right?
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby kimon07 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:19 pm

Cyprus, Israel and Greece sign MoU on energy and water

BY EVIE MITSIDOU PHILLIPS
• Thursday, 08 August, 2013

Cyprus, Israel and Greece have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on cooperation in the fields of energy and water.
http://famagusta-gazette.com/
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Re: Cyprus – Finally, energy security for the EU.

Postby kimon07 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:54 pm

Here is an excellent article by a very prominent and experienced in International relations Cypriot professor at the University of Political Sciences of Athens, Marios Evriviades.

It’s titled “Mediterranean energy mess”

Unfortunately it’s in greek but a google translation may help.

Very interesting information, not only about the issue of natural gas resources, but also the reasons, the background and the future of the shift of Israel towards Cyprus and Greece.

Μεσογειακό ενεργειακό αλαλούμ
August 17, 2013

ΜΑΡΙΟΥ ΕΥΡΥΒΙΑΔΗ

http://mignatiou.com/?p=11320#ixzz2cJctWZza
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