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Turkey an EU member?

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Postby Turker » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:55 pm

Turkey can't be blocked, otherwise everybody shares its aftermaths, including EU, Cypriots, and Turks.

Everybody (Politicians) knows well what it brings to veto Turkey. Cyprus Problem may not be solved unless Greeks and Turks give more concession. Both communities should do their part. Otherwise no one can blame Turkey for occupation as Greeks don't accept any logical agreement.

The key factor is compromise.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:15 pm

I am sorry Turker, but we do not trust you that after you get what you want you will compromise. So first you should compromise in Cyprus and then everything will be very easy for you.

What aftermaths will Cypriots pay? We already paid and there is nothing more you can do against us. As the saying goes: "the one who is already wet is not afraid of the rain". So instead of threatening better see how you will compromise in Cyprus if you don't want any problems in your accession process.
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Postby Mike » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:36 pm

The key factor is compromise.


You try to make "TRNC" recognized and not allow us to go back to our homes. You even have their flag in your avatar! How can we expect from you that you will compromise? You want to partition our island. Thats what you always wanted. We don't want you in the EU!
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Postby Turker » Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:39 pm

Dear Piratis, I understand your concerns, and actulally they are pretty logical; but I think the status-quo is something different from what you wrote.

There is 3 months to the submit, during which the decision will be taken. You can't expect us to find a solution in 3 months even when you rejected a supposedly-balanced plan. That is to say, your party is to be blamed by the "international community". But That doesn't mean that I agree with them, but I'm only writing the status-quo.

And what Turkey wants is not a simple date! she also wants a full membership which she'll be at least 10 years later. So it is pointless thinking about your veto right. It is so childish. You can more easily get what you want with the negotiation process.

And remember, You are supposed to start the negotiations(of cyprus problem) and give concessions first, and Turkey will have to come to an agreement and give concessions too, if another internationally-accepted plan is proposed. (Bear in mind what happened in a few months when Turkey needed a solution. She had to come an agreement or imitate to, but she was the one starting the negotiations as turkey was internationally blamed. And now it is your turn!

Piratis wrote:What aftermaths will Cypriots pay?


Aftermaths? A lot, which ones should I say?

1) You won't be able to return your properties forever.
2) Nicosia will be the only city divided with a wall, in the world.
3) Turkish troops will stay there more.
4) Army will intervene anything in the North. Rights of Turkish Cypriots will be limited.
5) You won't get any compensation as Turkey has nothing to loose.
6) You won't get any chance for peace forever.

Those are the ones coming to my mind. Surely there are more. Now you have a hope of solution, but after your veto the chance will be missed forever.


[/quote="Mike"]You try to make "TRNC" recognized and not allow us to go back to our homes. You even have their flag in your avatar! How can we expect from you that you will compromise? You want to partition our island. Thats what you always wanted. We don't want you in the EU![/quote]

First of all you should know that, I,individually am not partitionist. You can't blame me for that. Maybe my state can be but I'm not! I put that flag into my avartar so as to express that communities should live together peacefully as the flags in my avartar does. But don't worry I'll change it soon as you cannot even understand basic peace movements.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:20 pm

1) You won't be able to return your properties forever.
2) Nicosia will be the only city divided with a wall, in the world.
3) Turkish troops will stay there more.
4) Army will intervene anything in the North. Rights of Turkish Cypriots will be limited.
5) You won't get any compensation as Turkey has nothing to loose.
6) You won't get any chance for peace forever.


But this is what we have now already! How Turkey will be forced to stop these things if we just give them whatever they want?
Turkey should know that there is a certain cost to pay for the occupation.
It is indeed sad that if your leaders decide that Turkey should pay this cost that people like you that do not support the occupation will have to pay for it too. This is why you should press your government to accept a decent compromise in Cyprus. This way we will all be happy and Greece and Cyprus will help Turkey to become an EU member much faster.

You see their is nothing personal with you, but Turkey can not expect from us to love her while at the same time they are trying to cut us into pieces!
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Postby Piratis » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:23 pm

By the way, if Cyprus problem is solved, Turkish will become an official EU language.

Not to mention the biggest benefit of all: A guaranteed 10 from Cyprus to Turkey in Eurovision :wink:
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Postby Chrisswirl » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:30 am

Lol yeah, with a 12 for Greece of course! The English commentator, Terry Wogan, said that Cyprus could get on stage and smack a wet fish with a drumstick and they'd still receive 12 from Greece!

Turkey should be very much invited into the EU "circle", because a European, friendly Turkey, is much better than the alternative, an isolated Turkey. Just think, freedom of movement between Greece, Turkey and Cyprus. Freedom of movement between Salonica, Istanbul, Smyrna, Athens and Lefkosia / Lefkosa. Turks and Greeks have a lot more in common with each other than they think and, like in the past, they could find that advantages come with being friends with each other and trading freely etc.

As for Turker's avatar, I have nothing against it because, although I don't like how Turkey imposed a flag that suggests more connection with Turkey than Cyprus, it is the flag of the Turkish Cypriot community. And whether or not you reckognise the "TRNC", you do reckognise the Turkish Cypriot community, right?
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Postby Turker » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:50 pm

Piratis wrote:But this is what we have now already! How Turkey will be forced to stop these things if we just give them whatever they want?


If you don't give, you'll also miss your hope of peace forever. At least now there's a hope.

Piratis wrote:It is indeed sad that if your leaders decide that Turkey should pay this cost that people like you that do not support the occupation will have to pay for it too. This is why you should press your government to accept a decent compromise in Cyprus.


Governments are elected here. And At least %65 of our country was against even Annan Plan! There were lots of meetings and protest against the Government, the party of which was the only one to accept Annan Plan! (Can you believe that!)

So How can you expect them and thereby the government to give concessions? People here (Turkey) are pleased to have troops in Cyprus. They love Northern Cyprus to be dependent on Turkey.

These are the facts.

No matter what the others do, no one can change anything unless the great majority of the population start to think just the opposite.

But if you give a date (you certainly will), there'll be a period of compromise for at least 10 years with the process of Accession talks. And then people will realize the importance of peace and prosperity rather than hatred. After all we'll come to a compromise.

Trust me. This one is the most possible to happen. Maybe it is the long-term, but there'll be a big hope and chance then.
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Postby michalis5354 » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:02 pm

The more Turkey moves towards EU the higher the likelihood that changes are done for the benefit of all parties concerned. Turks , greeks and cypriots and the whole region of Middle East. Turkey outside the EU will be a disaster for the whole region.
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Postby Piratis » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:18 pm

Well, I disagree.
If there is no cost for Turkey they will never give up a single demand.
Just look at how Karamanlis and Erdogan became so good buddies .. the Turkish fighter jets still violate the Greek airspace.
Just look at UK and Ireland. They are both in the EU for many years, north Ireland problem is still unsolved.

Turkey should know that without solving the Cyprus problem they will not become an EU member. As they say "good deals make the good friends". If Turkey agrees for a good deal in Cyprus then we will be friends and we will help them. If they don't then we will be enemies and we will create costly problems for them. This should be clear to both the Turkish government and the Turkish people so they will make their calculations correctly. EU will not come for free.
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