Turkey an EU member?
 | Turkey an EU member? |  |
 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:38 pm |
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| Piratis |
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Is it for the interests of Cyprus if Turkey becomes an EU member even without the solution of the Cyprus problem?
Should it even get "the date"? Is such thing for our interests? Or we simply have to accept it because we can't go against what it seems as a very crucial US interest?
While I was reading about the new EU Constitution I came across this point:
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- SOLIDARITY CLAUSE: EU countries would be bound to come to each's other defence in case of attack.
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I remember when Turkey and Greece came close to a war, it was said that NATO would be unable to take a side because both countries are members of NATO.
Many people say that is better if Turkey joins the EU. I believe it should be allowed to join only after the Cyprus problem is solved in a way that it is acceptable for us.
I believe that Turkey should not even get "the date" before the Cyprus problem is solved, and I believe is for our interests if France and some other countries veto this in December. |
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| Re: Turkey an EU member? | |
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:09 am |
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| erolz |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 02 Aug 2004 |
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| Location: Girne / Kyrenia |
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| Piratis wrote: |
| I believe it should be allowed to join only after the Cyprus problem is solved in a way that it is acceptable for us. |
In the imfamous words of Many Rice Davies "well you would [say that] wouldn't you?"
I thought the same of RoC entry into the EU myself. (with 'us' being both GC and TC that is). Presumably not something you supported?
| Piratis wrote: |
I believe that Turkey should not even get "the date" before the Cyprus problem is solved, and I believe is for our interests if France and some other countries veto this in December. |
Veto by proxy - another of your fundamental 'democratic ideals'?
So you think it should be vaild for a country with a population of less than million to block proposals of a Union of 250million + people if they numercialy support such proposal and thwart the aspirations of a country of 65million plus? Yet you also think that any deviance from politcal representation that does not match exactly numerical numbers within and proposed Cyprus framework, is inhernetly and fundamentaly, unfair, unjust, undemoractic and unstable.
Hmmm. Call me a cynic. |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:09 am |
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| Piratis |
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| Quote: |
| I thought the same of RoC entry into the EU myself. (with 'us' being both GC and TC that is). Presumably not something you supported? |
The majority of Cypriots wanted to join the EU. So whats your problem?
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| So you think it should be valid for a country with a population of less than million to block proposals of a Union of 250million + people |
How sure are you that the EU people want Turkey in the EU?? Most polls show the exact opposite. Therefore rejecting Turkey would be something very democratic.
As I told you many times, EU is not a country. And we have the veto power, and since we have it we can use it. And if you noticed I said that if Turkey is rejected will not be rejected only because of Cyprus but because other countries will reject it also.
Turkey illegally occupies part of our country, so don't expect from us to be nice. Expect from us to cause as much trouble and harm to Turkey as possible until the occupation ends. |
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| EU | |
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:03 pm |
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| PEACE |
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| Joined: 22 Nov 2003 |
| Posts: 386 |
| Location: Lefke,Cyprus |
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| Piratis wrote: |
As I told you many times, EU is not a country. And we have the veto power, and since we have it we can use it. And if you noticed I said that if Turkey is rejected will not be rejected only because of Cyprus but because other countries will reject it also.
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It'll be the biggest mistake to prevent Turkey from getting only a "date".
Can't you think that if this happens army will resume its power again and outdated thoughts will be so powerfull?
Can't you think that all EU supporters in Turkey will get a big slap to their face and can't support EU anymore?
Can't you think that outdated mentality in Turkey can cause a blow in Turkey?Can you think the effect of this to Cyprus? 
These thoughts scares me so much! Even annexation mentelity can come again with the power never been before!This is so possible!
Why? Because EU aim is the main aim of Turkey and if she looses it she can feel she havent got anything to loose anymore!
Before using veto power EU countries must think so careful and sensetive.I'm not talking about accepting Turkey to EU but giving her a date! |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:01 pm |
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| erolz |
| lecturer |
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| Piratis wrote: |
| The majority of Cypriots wanted to join the EU. So whats your problem? |
I guess its the same problem you have if a majority of Turks want to join the EU
| Piratis wrote: |
How sure are you that the EU people want Turkey in the EU?? Most polls show the exact opposite. Therefore rejecting Turkey would be something very democratic. |
Because you did not say Turkey should be blocked from EU entry if there is not a sufficent majority in EU that wants to allow them. You said they should be blocked until RoC is happy about Cyprus.
| Piratis wrote: |
Turkey illegally occupies part of our country, so don't expect from us to be nice. Expect from us to cause as much trouble and harm to Turkey as possible until the occupation ends. |
Why would I expect you not to block TC entry? Maybe because your politicians SAID they would not block TC entry if they were allowed in to the EU? Still it would not suprise me if they said one thing to get what they want and then did another once they got what they wanted. It is after all quite a familure pattern for GC RoC administrations. |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:04 pm |
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| Piratis |
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| I guess its the same problem you have if a majority of Turks want to join the EU |
Cyprus doesn't violate any of the human rights of the Turks, so it can't be the same.
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| Because you did not say Turkey should be blocked from EU entry if there is not a sufficent majority in EU that wants to allow them. You said they should be blocked until RoC is happy about Cyprus. |
RoC is part of the EU, and EU can not accept it when Turkey occupies part of it. EU is not "them", EU is "us", so Turkey can forget about EU if it doesn't stop violating the rights of EU citizens.
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| Why would I expect you not to block TC entry? Maybe because your politicians SAID they would not block TC entry if they were allowed in to the EU? Still it would not suprise me if they said one thing to get what they want and then did another once they got what they wanted. It is after all quite a familure pattern for GC RoC administrations. |
What TC entry are you talking about??? Turkish Cypriots are already in the EU, and the only thing that stops them from enjoing all benefits is the Turkish occupation.
If you are talking about Turkey then yes. Turkey occupies our country, they soulld expect the worst from us. And by the way, we just said that we will not veto Turkey getting "the date". We didn't say anything about the actual accession. |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:53 pm |
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| erolz |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 02 Aug 2004 |
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| Location: Girne / Kyrenia |
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| Piratis wrote: |
What TC entry are you talking about??? Turkish Cypriots are already in the EU, and the only thing that stops them from enjoing all benefits is the Turkish occupation.
If you are talking about Turkey then yes. Turkey occupies our country, they soulld expect the worst from us. And by the way, we just said that we will not veto Turkey getting "the date". We didn't say anything about the actual accession. |
Yes my mistake - I am talking about Turkey (not TC). Your administration has said it would not block Turkey getting a date, but YOU were saying that that it should block / veto (directly or preferably via others doing it for RoC) even getting a date - despite any 'promises' made. Or have I got you wrong? |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:45 pm |
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| Piratis |
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What you got wrong is the "others doing it for RoC" part. If others block Turkey it will be for their own reasons which might include the Cyprus problem but they might not.
Personally I am not sure if we should veto Turkey getting "the date" or not.
You are might be right that our side saying that they will not veto can be part of a political game. Maybe Papadopulos wants the others to believe that we will not veto, so countries like France will have to use their veto and they will not hide behind us.
The truth is that the US wants Turkey in the EU, and this is why not many EU states dare to say that they don't. But in fact most of them wouldn't like such development. They all hope that either France, Austria or Cyprus will take the responsibility of rejecting Turkey. |
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:57 pm |
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| Mike |
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| How can Turkey be an eu country when they occupy eu soil? They can't. |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:38 am |
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| Chrisswirl |
| advanced member |
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| Location: South England / Larnaka, Cyprus |
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| The process should be started on Turkey's negotiations but the Cyprus problem should be on a list of very high priorities to be sorted as soon as possible. |
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