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Do you trust Papadopoulos?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Do you trust Papadopoulos?

Poll ended at Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:24 pm

Yes
1
33%
No
2
67%
 
Total votes : 3

Postby michalis5354 » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:52 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:It is ridiculus to even ask a player to reveal you his course of action. Do you know some chess? By the time a player reveals his stragedy the game is lost. Don't listen to Anastasiades he is just a puppet of foreign centers. He asks for the strategy for specific reasons. . . .


No I need to know in advance! He is being elected there for some specific reasons I guess! He is being paid for tax payers money and therefore he is acountable to state his policies and vision to the public. Bush stated clearly I went to war to Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction, because of the terrorist thread .Yet when these weapons are not found he is being critisised and accept responsibility of any errors commited on his behalf. If he does not feel that he need to explain then sorry but this is not a democracy!

Did the previous Presedents ever told you what their plans were? They just told you their targets: All the refugess back, return of all settlers back to Turkey, a bizonal Federation, a fully dimilitarised Cyprus without intervention rights, (how about the British bases? ) , S - 300 missiles, blah, blah, blah, all proved to be a bunch of lies.


Yes previous presidents told what were their plans and their actions at that time were reflecting their plans. They never behaved in such an dictatorship approach where they did not feel the need or necessity to inform the public where they go!

No they never say all these things. Do not mislead here! They never say all refugees back this is unacceptable and not feasible thing , not even all settlers back. At that time all these presidents were searhing for a solution according to the areements.

Papadopoulos also told you. He wants a bizonal bicumanal Federation. And he said he means every word of it because each one has its meaning.


Let me have my doubts on that! He does not want a bi communal federation thats the reason I want to see his plan what kind of federation is he searching for! The UN plan was an excellent framework for an agreement yet he refused the whole framework though there are members in his government who say that the solution will be based on the UN plan.

There has never been a Politician in Cyprus who could see into the future, not even to the near and predictable one. They were all going with the wind. Theywere just saying yes or no to events. Never created events never targetted on anything and grabbed it when it happened.


Again I disagree there are faithfull politicians who can see into the future.

Papadopoulos is juuust a little different. Papadopoulos CAN see into the predictable future. And I am absolutely certain that he will try to manage the Cyprus problem from inside the EU when Turkey gets a date as well. Foreign powers - who have analysts that can see into the future - know the result and I suspect the result is what we actually want. A fair solution. That’s why they will try to fix prior to December. Its upto each one of us to then think if what we are offered is satisfactory or not, and it his great responsibility to make it satisfactory.


Thats the reasons all his predictions went wrong?

at the same time contempt all those traitors who scream all day "tell us your strategy" , "tell us the exact changes you want on the Anan plan", "since you rejected the plan you must tell us what your alternative is" and things like that that. . .


He needs to state his strategy because this is democracy he is acountable to the people and he need to show some leadership skills ! He needs and obligd to tell the changes on the plan . How on earth he will find a solution with such attitude!
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Postby Bananiot » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:51 pm

Of course we can all judge Papadopoulos with the benefit of hindsight. This is easy. The whole idea, however, is to level critisism at the right moment hoping to alter a wrong course and set the ship on the right course. My friend MicAtCyp calls for blind support for Papadopoulos's policies and then we can judge him after the results of his policies are made known. Well, only dictators of the worse kind enjoy such prerogatives, which are never given to individuals even during war periods.

It amazes me that MicAtCyp can seriously support that Papadopoulos can absolutely keep his thoughts to himself and act as a lone ranger. The accusation that Anastasiades is a puppet of foreign centres is unacceptable and very "greek". I am convinced that Papadopoulos has condemned Cyprus to partition, but Iwould never suggest for one minute that he is a traitor to his country. His policies are fanned by his extreme nationalism and I blame his policies for the predicament he has thrown us in.

I wish MicAtCyp would think twice before making such wild accusations. Anastasiades, I just heard from the news, has just managed a huge breakthrough on the issue of the missing persons, in his talks with Talat. The moderate policies of Anastasiades (and anyone else) are the only way to achieve things and this has been proved today with the announcement I just heard. By the way, the Government Spokesman Kypros Chrysostomides, had this to say "we must not turn a humanitarian issue into a political argument". On the other hand, Christofias uttered "we must not make individual negotiations with the other side". Shame on both of them. In this case, if we really mean what we declare about the mising persons, what they should have simply said was "well done Anastasiades".

Of course, there is this little matter, if we were to heed Christofias's advice, of what should party leaders be discussing when they meet TC politicians, when the strategy of our President is a well locked secret.
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Postby PEACE » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:52 pm

Well,i couldn't read this forum for a long time so i haven't got a chance to read all! Sorry...

But i want to say my own opinion,
No, i don't trust to Papadopulos and i don't beleive that he changed !
He was one of the main members of EOKA and Denktaş was the chief of TMT.
We can't reach to peace with these two!
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Postby MicAtCyp » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:28 pm

Michalis5354 wrote: The UN plan was an excellent framework for an agreement

According to your opinion of course. With which 3 out of 4 GCs disagree!
Michalis5354 wrote: Thats the reasons all his predictions went wrong?

Like which? Sorry but you are full of generalisations my friend.
Michalis5354 wrote: He needs to state his strategy because this is democracy he is
acountable to the people

Sue him !!!!
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Postby Bananiot » Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:41 am

Prediction No 1: prior to the presidential elections he predicted that no developments on the cyprob were imminent.
Prediction No 2: during talks prior to April 24 he wasted no time assuring us that Turkey had not changed and everything was just a mere communications ploy.
Prediction No 3: he predicted that Denktash would materialise in Switzerland, wishfully thinking that our angel savour would assume full responsibility for another failed attempt due to turkish intransigence.
Prediction No 4: he predicted that the "NO" vote could be managed, so far we have seen only isolation.
Prediction No 5: he predicted a just, viable, european solution to the cyprob. You can believe him at your own peril.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:55 pm

Prediction No 1: prior to the presidential elections he predicted that no developments on the cyprob were imminent.

The Cyprus problem is the same today as it was a year ago. Also, he never said that there would be no developments, he said that he is the best one to handle these developments. He was right.

Prediction No 2: during talks prior to April 24 he wasted no time assuring us that Turkey had not changed and everything was just a mere communications ploy.

He was 100% right on this one.

Prediction No 3: he predicted that Denktash would materialise in Switzerland, wishfully thinking that our angel savour would assume full responsibility for another failed attempt due to turkish intransigence.


I don't remember him making such prediction. Your sources?

Prediction No 4: he predicted that the "NO" vote could be managed, so far we have seen only isolation.


He said that it will be hard, but it will be managed. So far he is 100% correct. What isolation are you talking about. I haven't felt any isolation myself. If you are talking about the high society European dinners that Vasiliou - Cleredes were invited and Papadopoulos is not, this is nothing. I am sure for Vasiliou- Cleredes high class dinners where of top priority (along with promoting their businesses) but Papadopoulos has different aims: to find a good solution for the Cyprus problem.

Who were wrong where those that supported that if we say "no" the north would become another Taiwan. As time passes even Turkish Cypriots themselves realize how big lie that one was.

Congratulations to our President for managing to save us, even in the last moment, from what some foreigners along with some traitors in Cyprus where planing for years.

Not many would be able to resist the pressures and bribes of those superpowers. Papadopoulos did. He is a worthy president of Cyprus.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:53 pm

Sorry my friend Bananiot it seems I touched one of your most sensitive strings here i. e of Papadopoulos. And yes I judge both Clerides and Anastasiades for their previous actions, Clerides for what he brought us to, and Anastasiades for what his hand juuuust slipped and wrote, simply to hurt his own country. That is what I call treason my friend.
And I personally can understand the strategy of Papadopoulos so far and I agree with it.
If you cannot understand why Talat satisfied the tiny requests of Anastasiades, then I have nothing else to say.

Surely however there was no way Talat would make a really meaningful gesture to Anastasiades like opening the Varoshia for the refugess to return. Just a few peanuts were enough to wind up the choir .

Bananiot wrote: The whole idea, however, is to level critisism at the right moment hoping to alter a wrong course and set the ship on the right course.


If this is your incentive then it is welcomed.

Bananiot wrote: My friend MicAtCyp calls for blind support for Papadopoulos's policies and then we can judge him after the results of his policies are made known.


Not exactly! I said I can understand his stategy and happen to agree with it .Stategy creates events. When the events occur thats the time I will re-evaluate him. You said you already know what his stategy is and what he would do when events occur.So you are doing a preventive criticism hoping to alter his decisions when events occur. Thats your democratic right and you do excerise it quite well, precicely because you are NOT living in a dictatorship.

Do you know what the Generals in the occupied areas would do to you if you were living there and you were excercising the same kind of critism to Denktash? If you don't, ask Sener Levent and he will tell you.
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:09 am

Its true I do not like Papadopoulos but this has nothing to do with my so called sensitive strings, whatever this means. Papadopoulos has been around for a long time and waiting for another 2 or 3 months in order to judge him seems quite inappropriate to say the least.

To lay the blame on Clerides for our predicament is also narrow minded considering the fact that if it weren't for Clerides and his flexible and moderate policy we could have never been accessed to the EU. Your idea that Anastasiades is a traitor also makes my hair stand on end. The ease by which people are labelled in this country is phenomenal. What did he do? He threatened to report the undemocratic way the referendum campaign was run. For this he is a traitor, in the same way German anti nazis were traitors to the fatherland. In the same way anti junta Greeks were accused of betraying their country. I can understand the outcry of the dictators, but the outcry of a democratically elected government and its supporters points to the presence of many skeletons in the closet.

I do not agree with you that the question of the missing persons is a tiny thing. If Talat has consented to a much sought after movement in this area, is because some people have maintained their creditability and can talk face to face with the TC leadership. Its the ony way solutions can be found and there is no better way than starting with the "tiny" problems. If Papadopoulos could do this I would be the first to applaude him. His problem of course is that nobody trusts him and nobody wants to talk to him. That would be fine, if we were a superpower.
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Postby Piratis » Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:04 am

What did he do? He threatened to report the undemocratic way the referendum campaign was run. For this he is a traitor, in the same way German anti nazis were traitors to the fatherland. In the same way anti junta Greeks were accused of betraying their country.


The referendum campaign was run in the most democratic way. You only say this because you are not a democrat and you can not accept the results of democracy (elections and referendum). You would prefer if dictatorship existed so a minority like you could put into action their evil plans to destroy Cyprus.

Are you comparing us (the great majority of Greek Cypriots who voted "no" in the referendum and who support our president) with Nazis and Junta? You are pathetic! The president has the support of the majority either you like it or not. The actions he takes are the actions that the majority of Cypriots want him to take just like it should be in democracies.

We will never again let a minority of fascists like you who do not respect democracy to harm our country. You did this in 74 with EOKA-B that you thought you knew better than the majority and helped Turkey to invade us. Today you are continuing your crime by trying to help Turkey to legalize the results of their invasion. This time be sure that traitors like you and Anastasiades will be stopped! (funny that just like 74 today the traitors again come from the same group. Coincidence? I don't think so.)
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Postby insan » Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:19 am

Piratis Said:

This time be sure that traitors like you and Anastasiades will be stopped!










"Montag, Mai 10, 2004

Ultra-nationalist group threatens more attacks against Anastassiades and other ‘yes’ voters

AN obscure ultra-nationalist group yesterday claimed responsibility for Tuesday’s grenade attack against the home of DISY chief Nicos Anastassiades. In a declaration found in a phone booth outside a Limassol supermarket at noon, the self-proclaimed Cypriot Nationalist Organisation claimed responsibility for the dawn attack, which caused only minor damage, and warned “traitor” Anastassiades to resign by May 11 or else Tuesday’s incident “would constitute a minor warning”. The group accused Anastassiades of spreading lies and misinforming the outside world about the situation on the island. The organisation made threats against Anastassiades’ family and all those who voted ‘yes’ for the “treacherous plan”, stressing that Cyprus was “not for sale”. (...) Police that night foiled the plans of a neo-nazi group Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) some of whose members, along with a few from Greece, were rounded up near the Municipal Theatre in Nicosia before they could get anywhere near the rally."



http://home.pages.at/dokklar/blog/2004/ ... -more.html



Was that you re Piratis who threw the Grenade towards Mr Anastasiades ... Though I too don't like his actions in particular but I've never thought to attack him with a grenade...
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