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Rotating Presidency or Collective Presidency?

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

From the options described below, what would you prefer for the Presidency of re-united Cyprus?

A collective Presidency
5
31%
A rotating Presidency
4
25%
Both options are equally acceptable to me
0
No votes
Both options are totally unacceptable to me
4
25%
I am not sure what is best ...
3
19%
 
Total votes : 16

Postby Piratis » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:58 am

as i wrote you just above, i am afraid that we either accept that or we stay as we are.


Maybe thats the case for now. We choose to stay as we are than "that". If they offered to us something better than disguised partition then we would have considered it even with some undemocratic elements in it.

so i can accept some unfairness, if that would mean a peacefull country moving in the future.

Would the TCs be willing to accept some unfairness against them also?

it could also be the only sure way that keeps the status quo

Status qvo is unfair. Why would we want to exchange this unfair with something that is again unfair and legalizes this unfairness against us?
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:33 am

Piratis
Would the TCs be willing to accept some unfairness against them also?


imo this would very much depend on the severity of the issue but TCs are not out for a victory, they do not want to reduce GCs to a losing community, you always feel this is our objective, I have to inform you you are totally wrong. we feel that compromise is a must to finding a solution but what TCs can get passed is the trust factor, at the moment is below zero and getting worse. Many issues that would be easily resolved are blown out of all proportion and seem unresolvable, if a clear effort was made by the economically stronger south to work with the north to improve the economy in the north inviting TCs leader to meet regualrly to iron out specific issues I am certain in time and with positive steps from both sides we could start to build the trust factor which is our major handicap. The longer we dont talk to each other the deeper the divide becomes until it is to late or no longer an aim, is this what the Cypriots want?? or the outsiders??
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Postby Piratis » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:01 pm

Viewpoint the trust factor problem is one that exist for both communities. However our side does not use as an excuse this trust factor in order to violate your human rights.

How can GCs trust you when you continue to violate our human rights at the very moment we speak? If trust is such an issue for you, then what are you doing in order to gain the trust of GCs??

if a clear effort was made by the economically stronger south to work with the north to improve the economy in the north inviting TCs leader to meet regualrly to iron out specific issues I am certain in time and with positive steps from both sides we could start to build the trust factor which is our major handicap.


How about at the same time that the economy of the north is improved that the Turkish occupation army is withdrawn and properties are given back to their legal owners? You seem to just want to take without giving back anything in return. Thats not the way to build trust. Thats just the way for you to gain while at the same time violating our human rights.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:24 pm

Piratis wrote:Viewpoint the trust factor problem is one that exist for both communities. However our side does not use as an excuse this trust factor in order to violate your human rights.

How can GCs trust you when you continue to violate our human rights at the very moment we speak? If trust is such an issue for you, then what are you doing in order to gain the trust of GCs??

if a clear effort was made by the economically stronger south to work with the north to improve the economy in the north inviting TCs leader to meet regualrly to iron out specific issues I am certain in time and with positive steps from both sides we could start to build the trust factor which is our major handicap.


How about at the same time that the economy of the north is improved that the Turkish occupation army is withdrawn and properties are given back to their legal owners? You seem to just want to take without giving back anything in return. Thats not the way to build trust. Thats just the way for you to gain while at the same time violating our human rights.


I agree that the army should leave and settlers should start to leave, this will prove the goodwill of the TCs but what will the GCs do???

The GCs do violate my human righs everyday they say they are the sole government of all Cypriots, I have nothing to do with them I didnt elect them, I dont have an "RoC" passport, I do not use their medical care, how can GCs claim this??? If we are not recognized then the south should also not be recognized until a solution is found. The same yard stcik should be used for both communities.

If you feel we use trust as an excuse (which we do not) to violate your human rights, dont forget we Cypriots caused the current situation together, the aprtition was the result of both communites and the continued partition is not just the responsiblity of TCs, GCs have to accept that they to caused the situation we find ourselves in and that they are unable to find a solution that would resolve outstanding issues. Your administration is also in capable of gaining and building trust. GCs are more comfortable with the trust issue because theirmain aim is to get rid of the Turkish Army thus gaining numerical superiority, then who needs to trust who? the past tell us dont you dare.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:25 pm

I agree that the army should leave and settlers should start to leave, this will prove the goodwill of the TCs but what will the GCs do???

The GCs do violate my human righs everyday they say they are the sole government of all Cypriots


RoC IS the sole government of Cyprus. If any of your rights are violated this is because you choose not to participate and act illegally instead. When you stop violating our rights then you will also get your rights. I think thats fair.

I have nothing to do with them I didnt elect them, I dont have an "RoC" passport, I do not use their medical care, how can GCs claim this???

You can already get a RoC passport and receive RoC health care if you want. You can get the 100% of your rights in RoC when you decide to act in a legal way.

If we are not recognized then the south should also not be recognized until a solution is found.

There is no "south" that is recognized. What is recognized is one single state in Cyprus.


If you feel we use trust as an excuse (which we do not) to violate your human rights, dont forget we Cypriots caused the current situation together

No. The situation before 74 was cause by both communities, not the current one.

GCs are more comfortable with the trust issue because theirmain aim is to get rid of the Turkish Army thus gaining numerical superiority, then who needs to trust who? the past tell us dont you dare.

Turkey and European countries had many wars in the past. Why does Turkey want to join the EU then? Why they don't use the past in that case? The past is used as an excuse to gain on our loss.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:01 pm

Piratis
RoC IS the sole government of Cyprus. If any of your rights are violated this is because you choose not to participate and act illegally instead. When you stop violating our rights then you will also get your rights. I think thats fair.


The "RoC" is the respresentative of only the GC community on the island, the GC political manouvering brought recognition but in reality according to the 1960 agreements the "RoC" should have TCs representing the TCs community, without them you only represent yourselves, you have one lef missing yet you insist on trying to run a amarathon. Why is the "RoC" so prescious now? it was you that wanted to get rid of it saying it gave TCs to many privlidges,attempting to force the 13 points of Akritas, now you want to force this on us, why???
We now have a new state of affairs we are a divided island trying to negotiate a new structure that will not allow the problems of the past that led to our current situation. Your trying to revive something that did not work back then, what makes you feel it will work in 2005?

My violating your human rights and vice versa can only be resolved via a comprehensive solution which we have not been able to agree jointly, it is not one sided, both communites are to blame so dont try to weight the blame on one side by saying restore our human rights and we will restore yours thats a very simplistic viewpoint.

How can your leaders represent me? I did not elect them.


You can already get a RoC passport and receive RoC health care if you want. You can get the 100% of your rights in RoC when you decide to act in a legal way.


No thanks, Not until we reach a comprehensive solution.


There is no "south" that is recognized. What is recognized is one single state in Cyprus.



Not by us the people that count, the people you have to agree a solution with.

No. The situation before 74 was cause by both communities, not the current one.


The current situation is a direct result of actions which led to division in 1974, this situation was further cemented by the GC OXI and continued hiding behind the EU trying to extract demands.

Turkey and European countries had many wars in the past. Why does Turkey want to join the EU then? Why they don't use the past in that case? The past is used as an excuse to gain on our loss.


Turkey will always remain as Turkey member state in the EU but GCs want to reduce TCs to a minority status in a country they ruled. We are not trying to gain on your loss you keep saying this get over it and dont forget for one moment that the current situation is also your fault.....
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Postby Kifeas » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:42 pm

viewpoint wrote:Turkey will always remain as Turkey member state in the EU but GCs want to reduce TCs to a minority status in a country they ruled.


That sounds like a new theory. Do you mind elaborating a bit on what exactly you want to say here?
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:27 pm

Kifeas wrote:
viewpoint wrote:Turkey will always remain as Turkey member state in the EU but GCs want to reduce TCs to a minority status in a country they ruled.


That sounds like a new theory. Do you mind elaborating a bit on what exactly you want to say here?


We maybe numerically be a minority when you simply take into account the total head count on the island.

The GCs support the unitary state model with one man one vote although they pay lip service to supporting BBF . This numerical imbalance will ensure that we are no different from an Indian living in the UK. In our case we would be TCs living in a GC state, which TCs would never accept, the current situation would be prefered.
Those Indians chose to go live in the UK under their English laws as a minority, they never owned any part of the UK or ever ruled the country and never had an agreement to say they were partners.
So the evolution of Cypriot history has given TCs priviliges that normally you argue numerically smaller communites are regarded as minorities and therefore should not have. The need for safeguards between the 2 communites in any agreement was evident in the 1960 constitution, which was relected by veto rights and 30% government worker to name 2, these were not effective and was a contributing factor which led us to where we are today.
The Annan plan duplicated and reconfirmed the need have safeguards against GC dominance over the island both polically and economically. Doesnt this tell GCs something??? if given the norms as many other countries without the safeguards or deviations we will be unable to work together to build a common future as the numercially larger and economically stronger GCs will without a doubt take steps to ensure TCs are not elected or we are unable to trade via GC run ports etc etc. You may say we are in the EU now and these things cannot happen imo this is a cop out response, then I would say wont the TC community be at the mercy of the GC community whos past track record leaves a lot to be desired. Even today although Greece is in the EU the situation in Thrace is no where near it should be for a european country, they even have problems letting a mosque being built in Athens.
GCs have to accept that we have a new state of affairs and the negotiating positions of both sides changed in 1974, we now have 2 clear communites 2 areas, 2 economies, 2 infrastructures which are sustainable and can continue to exist for many years to come.
We TCs do not want to be that Indian living in the UK as a minority, how do you propose to address this concern of ours???
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Postby Kifeas » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:17 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
viewpoint wrote:Turkey will always remain as Turkey member state in the EU but GCs want to reduce TCs to a minority status in a country they ruled.


That sounds like a new theory. Do you mind elaborating a bit on what exactly you want to say here?


We maybe numerically be a minority when you simply take into account the total head count on the island.

The GCs support the unitary state model with one man one vote although they pay lip service to supporting BBF . This numerical imbalance will ensure that we are no different from an Indian living in the UK. In our case we would be TCs living in a GC state, which TCs would never accept, the current situation would be prefered.
Those Indians chose to go live in the UK under their English laws as a minority, they never owned any part of the UK or ever ruled the country and never had an agreement to say they were partners.
So the evolution of Cypriot history has given TCs priviliges that normally you argue numerically smaller communites are regarded as minorities and therefore should not have. The need for safeguards between the 2 communites in any agreement was evident in the 1960 constitution, which was relected by veto rights and 30% government worker to name 2, these were not effective and was a contributing factor which led us to where we are today.
The Annan plan duplicated and reconfirmed the need have safeguards against GC dominance over the island both polically and economically. Doesnt this tell GCs something??? if given the norms as many other countries without the safeguards or deviations we will be unable to work together to build a common future as the numercially larger and economically stronger GCs will without a doubt take steps to ensure TCs are not elected or we are unable to trade via GC run ports etc etc. You may say we are in the EU now and these things cannot happen imo this is a cop out response, then I would say wont the TC community be at the mercy of the GC community whos past track record leaves a lot to be desired. Even today although Greece is in the EU the situation in Thrace is no where near it should be for a european country, they even have problems letting a mosque being built in Athens.
GCs have to accept that we have a new state of affairs and the negotiating positions of both sides changed in 1974, we now have 2 clear communites 2 areas, 2 economies, 2 infrastructures which are sustainable and can continue to exist for many years to come.
We TCs do not want to be that Indian living in the UK as a minority, how do you propose to address this concern of ours???


No Viewpoint, we do not regard you to be like the Indians in the UK and you are /will not be like the Indians in the UK. You are, whether you like it or not, the Turkish speaking Cypriots in a Cypriot State; like we are, whether we like it or not, the Greek speaking Cypriots in a Cypriot state.

Burry this in your brain. You are not going to have it your way, even you fetch another 1/2 a million Turkish troops in the north.
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:13 am

Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
viewpoint wrote:Turkey will always remain as Turkey member state in the EU but GCs want to reduce TCs to a minority status in a country they ruled.


That sounds like a new theory. Do you mind elaborating a bit on what exactly you want to say here?


We maybe numerically be a minority when you simply take into account the total head count on the island.

The GCs support the unitary state model with one man one vote although they pay lip service to supporting BBF . This numerical imbalance will ensure that we are no different from an Indian living in the UK. In our case we would be TCs living in a GC state, which TCs would never accept, the current situation would be prefered.
Those Indians chose to go live in the UK under their English laws as a minority, they never owned any part of the UK or ever ruled the country and never had an agreement to say they were partners.
So the evolution of Cypriot history has given TCs priviliges that normally you argue numerically smaller communites are regarded as minorities and therefore should not have. The need for safeguards between the 2 communites in any agreement was evident in the 1960 constitution, which was relected by veto rights and 30% government worker to name 2, these were not effective and was a contributing factor which led us to where we are today.
The Annan plan duplicated and reconfirmed the need have safeguards against GC dominance over the island both polically and economically. Doesnt this tell GCs something??? if given the norms as many other countries without the safeguards or deviations we will be unable to work together to build a common future as the numercially larger and economically stronger GCs will without a doubt take steps to ensure TCs are not elected or we are unable to trade via GC run ports etc etc. You may say we are in the EU now and these things cannot happen imo this is a cop out response, then I would say wont the TC community be at the mercy of the GC community whos past track record leaves a lot to be desired. Even today although Greece is in the EU the situation in Thrace is no where near it should be for a european country, they even have problems letting a mosque being built in Athens.
GCs have to accept that we have a new state of affairs and the negotiating positions of both sides changed in 1974, we now have 2 clear communites 2 areas, 2 economies, 2 infrastructures which are sustainable and can continue to exist for many years to come.
We TCs do not want to be that Indian living in the UK as a minority, how do you propose to address this concern of ours???


No Viewpoint, we do not regard you to be like the Indians in the UK and you are /will not be like the Indians in the UK. You are, whether you like it or not, the Turkish speaking Cypriots in a Cypriot State; like we are, whether we like it or not, the Greek speaking Cypriots in a Cypriot state.

Burry this in your brain. You are not going to have it your way, even you fetch another 1/2 a million Turkish troops in the north.


Kifeas what have troops got to do with what we are saying, we have enough and they did their job in 1974 but I must at admit they are a very good deterrant like an insurance policy against any future attempts at numerical forced dominance. But saying that and not feeling 100% happy I personally would compromise by sending them home to address GC fears as a step in the right direction.

Cypriot state???thats a new one, would that still be dominated by the numerically larger population of Greek Cypriots?? and the TCs would of course be at their mercy, to be dominated and manipulated all uner the banner of the EU, no go my friend.

PS ho and who will guarantee we will not be like Indians in the UK??? GCs??? please dont make me laugh :lol:
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