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Rotating Presidency or Collective Presidency?

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

From the options described below, what would you prefer for the Presidency of re-united Cyprus?

A collective Presidency
5
31%
A rotating Presidency
4
25%
Both options are equally acceptable to me
0
No votes
Both options are totally unacceptable to me
4
25%
I am not sure what is best ...
3
19%
 
Total votes : 16

Postby Piratis » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:41 pm

The "RoC" is the respresentative of only the GC community on the island

RoC represents the RoC citizens, not the GC community. RoC citizens include other minorities, and people from around the world that got the citizenship throw legal means.

according to the 1960 agreements the "RoC" should have TCs representing the TCs community


The reason it doesn't is because you wanted to steal our land instead of being part of RoC. If somebody brakes the law this doesn't mean the law does not exist. It means that that outlaws exist, like you.



it was you that wanted to get rid of it saying it gave TCs to many privlidges,attempting to force the 13 points of Akritas, now you want to force this on us, why???

Because RoC is the only legal think that exists. We realized that we can not get more than what is our legal right. We will make sure that you will not get more either. Sounds fair to me.

We now have a new state of affairs we are a divided island trying to negotiate a new structure that will not allow the problems of the past that led to our current situation. Your trying to revive something that did not work back then, what makes you feel it will work in 2005?

I told you already. If you think that the only way to avoid the problems of the past is a solution based on ethnic cleansing and separation of Cypriots, then get prepared for your departure from our island.

My violating your human rights and vice versa can only be resolved via a comprehensive solution which we have not been able to agree jointly, it is not one sided, both communites are to blame so dont try to weight the blame on one side by saying restore our human rights and we will restore yours thats a very simplistic viewpoint.

How about giving back our rights and getting yours simultaneously?
Why you do not accept that? Is it because you want to gain on our loss by violating our human rights?

How can your leaders represent me? I did not elect them.

They don't represent you. They represent the law obeying citizens of RoC. It is your choice not to be a law obeying citizen. When you stop violating the laws and you allow the 200.000 refugees to return to their homes without killing them, then you can vote again.


No thanks, Not until we reach a comprehensive solution.


So why do you complain then? You asked if you can get a RoC passport, I said you can, and then you say "No thanks" !

The current situation is a direct result of actions which led to division in 1974, this situation was further cemented by the GC OXI and continued hiding behind the EU trying to extract demands.

The current situation is that the Turkish army is illegally occupying Cyprus. The events in 74 could be an excuse in 74. Not in 2005.

Turkey will always remain as Turkey member state in the EU but GCs want to reduce TCs to a minority status in a country they ruled.

TCs are an 18% minority. This 18% minority ruled Cyprus without democratic means and this is something we expect an apology for. However we forgave you for oppressing us for centuries, in order to live in one united democratic country were human rights of everybody are respected. Apparently you miss the days that you could rule this place without democracy and you use the military power to force something undemocratic and in violation of our basic human rights again. Sorry, but we will not accept to return to the middle ages because it suits you this way. Today countries should be democratic without racial discriminations and without human right violations. This is what we want for our country.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:19 pm

Piratis
RoC represents the RoC citizens, not the GC community. RoC citizens include other minorities, and people from around the world that got the citizenship throw legal means.


The "RoC" is a defacto administration of the GC community as the 1960 agreements have a vital organ missing, its heart which is the TC community. We no longer live under the same constitution, laws or ruling body, we have our own and as long as we cannot agree a comprehensive solution this will continue like it or not...(please dont go back to the change of balance in power I know that pipe dream). You can claim to represent whoever you wish as long as its not the TC people.


The reason it doesn't is because you wanted to steal our land instead of being part of RoC. If somebody brakes the law this doesn't mean the law does not exist. It means that that outlaws exist, like you.


The only reason anything happened was we wanted to steal your lands how childish, get over that one you keep repeating it like a parrot, we together caused the current situation so stop trying to lay blame on just one side. Which laws? "RoC" laws then take us to court and prove that what you claim is correct, and get back what you constantly claim we stole. Its been 31 years, even Loizou will have to come back and live in the TRNC if she wants her property back so much, paying tax, utility to the TRNC government and live under our laws, do you think she will do this? or any other GC? then you are welcome....


Because RoC is the only legal think that exists. We realized that we can not get more than what is our legal right. We will make sure that you will not get more either. Sounds fair to me.



Why didnt you realize this in 1960 when you had hidden agendas, why werent you a Cypriot then like you claim you are now??? It was then that you wanted more and that you were opposed to the 1960 agreements because according to your mindset they gave TCs to much. Whats changed now? whats to say you will not come up with the same arguements but this time using the EU to change parts of the constitiution to GCs favor and reduce us to a minority status. Thats why if we to agree anything it would have to be a new constitution that would ensure that no community would ever have the right to dominate or hinder the other and the all Cypriots work together in a United Cyprus.

I told you already. If you think that the only way to avoid the problems of the past is a solution based on ethnic cleansing and separation of Cypriots, then get prepared for your departure from our island.


I and my community are going nowhere forget the ideologies of GCs in the 1960, and work for a solution that will address both our concerns not just yours.

How about giving back our rights and getting yours simultaneously?
Why you do not accept that? Is it because you want to gain on our loss by violating our human rights?


No problem here, as soon as you can agree a comprehensive solution.

They don't represent you. They represent the law obeying citizens of RoC. It is your choice not to be a law obeying citizen. When you stop violating the laws and you allow the 200.000 refugees to return to their homes without killing them, then you can vote again.



You are referring to the GC community who you represent, if at some stage you can genuinely negotiate a solution that would include the return of refugees with TCs then we may unite but for now you have the "Roc" and have the TRNC, so you chose your leaders and we choose ours.

So why do you complain then? You asked if you can get a RoC passport, I said you can, and then you say "No thanks" !



I didnt ask if I can get a "RoC" passport please show me where I said this?? I dont need one and would prefer to claim a passport of a united Cyprus where I would feel that I was represented.

The current situation is that the Turkish army is illegally occupying Cyprus. The events in 74 could be an excuse in 74. Not in 2005.


Please dont be so naive we all the events that lead to 1974 what I was referring to was the fact that at the latest juncture being the Annan plan we had the opportunity to resolve the Cyprus issue yet we voted YES and you voted NO, so really todays status quo would have been changed good or bad not arguing this point but the fact that the current situation would have been very different in 2005, but the lack of incentive fuelled by EU entry and more for GCs proved to be to strong against a plan that brought home realities that you would not obtain all your demands 100% and that you had to share Cyprus with TCs.

TCs are an 18% minority. This 18% minority ruled Cyprus without democratic means and this is something we expect an apology for. However we forgave you for oppressing us for centuries, in order to live in one united democratic country were human rights of everybody are respected. Apparently you miss the days that you could rule this place without democracy and you use the military power to force something undemocratic and in violation of our basic human rights again. Sorry, but we will not accept to return to the middle ages because it suits you this way. Today countries should be democratic without racial discriminations and without human right violations. This is what we want for our country.


Utter rubbish, I could but wont even bother to respond to this one, your mentality is very clear for all to read from your remarks.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:34 am

Viewpoint, sorry, but you are not the one to decide what is RoC and what is not. Either you like it or not, RoC is the one and only state for the whole island of Cyprus.

You obviously don't like RoC because you want to keep the land that you stole form us. Again, the situation is clear: You can only keep it illegally for us long as the Turkish tanks have the power to do so.

You can keep using that one decade as an excuse for your crimes. Nobody cares about your cheap excuses. Everybody knows your history and you complaining about the one decade when you have oppressed us for centuries is absolutely ridiculous.

The whole Cyprus is our homeland. We have been living here for 3500 years. No 30 or 40 or 50 years of your illegal occupation can wash away the 3500 years of our history on this land. Either you like it or not, sooner or later we will be back to our lands. You can either accept this and live in peace as a Cypriot citizen, or get out of our island.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:16 am

Piratis wrote:Viewpoint, sorry, but you are not the one to decide what is RoC and what is not. Either you like it or not, RoC is the one and only state for the whole island of Cyprus.

You obviously don't like RoC because you want to keep the land that you stole form us. Again, the situation is clear: You can only keep it illegally for us long as the Turkish tanks have the power to do so.

You can keep using that one decade as an excuse for your crimes. Nobody cares about your cheap excuses. Everybody knows your history and you complaining about the one decade when you have oppressed us for centuries is absolutely ridiculous.

The whole Cyprus is our homeland. We have been living here for 3500 years. No 30 or 40 or 50 years of your illegal occupation can wash away the 3500 years of our history on this land. Either you like it or not, sooner or later we will be back to our lands. You can either accept this and live in peace as a Cypriot citizen, or get out of our island.


Please clam down I have no problem with your balance of power theory and can wait as long as you wish but you should realize you may be cutting off your nose despite your face as we will not sit and wait, we will work hard for positive steps that will enable us to improve economically and in time if we are patient very patient, whos knows the TRNC may be recognized.

Why are you so suprised that we do not feel like we are part of the "RoC"? and do not recognise its respresentation of the whole island including TCs, surely this is natural for 31 years we have had no part in that mechanism how on earth can you think it represents us. Its not abour liking or disliking the "RoC" becasue we want to keep your lands, you are still pursuing this very childish attitude, the spoilt child that had his sweeties taken away, We have agreed that the current situation was caused by both our communities and at the latest juncture it was in fact the GCs that rejected a plan that would have united the island, Im referring to the action of the GCs people not the reasons, which we have argued previously.
So to resolve the issue you have to agree a comprehensive solution with TCs that we can all commit to, before you can get your land back.

You can consider the whole island as your homeland, you can also consider parts of Turkey or even Africa as your homeland as well, if it makes you feel better, but the stark reality is that you are faced with division and the only way you can overcome this is to negotiate with us for a solution that will resolve all our issues. If you are confident in your leadership and that they will make progress then you have absoulutely nothing to worry abour do you???
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:45 am

Viewpoint wrote:Please clam down I have no problem with your balance of power theory and can wait as long as you wish but you should realize you may be cutting off your nose despite your face as we will not sit and wait, we will work hard for positive steps that will enable us to improve economically and in time if we are patient very patient, whos knows the TRNC may be recognized.

Why are you so suprised that we do not feel like we are part of the "RoC"? and do not recognise its respresentation of the whole island including TCs, surely this is natural for 31 years we have had no part in that mechanism how on earth can you think it represents us. Its not abour liking or disliking the "RoC" becasue we want to keep your lands, you are still pursuing this very childish attitude, the spoilt child that had his sweeties taken away, We have agreed that the current situation was caused by both our communities and at the latest juncture it was in fact the GCs that rejected a plan that would have united the island, Im referring to the action of the GCs people not the reasons, which we have argued previously.
So to resolve the issue you have to agree a comprehensive solution with TCs that we can all commit to, before you can get your land back.

You can consider the whole island as your homeland, you can also consider parts of Turkey or even Africa as your homeland as well, if it makes you feel better, but the stark reality is that you are faced with division and the only way you can overcome this is to negotiate with us for a solution that will resolve all our issues. If you are confident in your leadership and that they will make progress then you have absoulutely nothing to worry abour do you???


Viewpoint, you now seem to be proposing that we should negotiate for a solution. What kind of solution are you proposing we negotiate in order to find, because all I know is that the only solution you are interested in, is that of partition? However, this solution is not on the table by anyone one of the parties but instead a solution on the basis of re-unification. Do you suggest that we start a new negotiating approach so that we find a solution on the basis of partition? I am a bit confused as to what you want to say. Can you elaborate a bit more?
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Postby cypezokyli » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:04 am

Viewpoint, you now seem to be proposing that we should negotiate for a solution. What kind of solution are you proposing we negotiate in order to find, because all I know is that the only solution you are interested in, is that of partition? However, this solution is not on the table by anyone one of the parties but instead a solution on the basis of re-unification. Do you suggest that we start a new negotiating approach so that we find a solution on the basis of partition? I am a bit confused as to what you want to say. Can you elaborate a bit more?


there are some pretty good suggestion from vp in another thread.

why dont you just read them?

u might be surprised
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:36 am

Kifeas why are you so suprised? I have always said our administrations should at least be talking to each other, Talat and Papadop have to meet on a regular basis to address issues. If the negotiations are to based on Annan 5 or partition then this will develop as negotiations proceed, Gcs may come to realize that forming any future united Cyprus with TCs would not serve their best interests and that alternative forms of resolving the issue may be more attractive, who knows???
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:08 am

Viewpoint wrote:Kifeas why are you so suprised? I have always said our administrations should at least be talking to each other, Talat and Papadop have to meet on a regular basis to address issues. If the negotiations are to based on Annan 5 or partition then this will develop as negotiations proceed, Gcs may come to realize that forming any future united Cyprus with TCs would not serve their best interests and that alternative forms of resolving the issue may be more attractive, who knows???

I wonder, does your mother has more clever children like you, or you are the only one?

We have been talking and negotiating for 31 years now and we have seen no results. I do not mind if we continue talking and negotiating for the next 50 or 100 years, as long as it is done on an equal footing. From the moment you hold our properties and our homeland as a hostage, then this talking and negotiating cannot be considered to be done on an equal footing. This is the reason you did not agree on a solution yet and this is the reason you will never agree on a solution in the future if it doesn't amount to a capitulation of the GC side on all the unreasonable claims that you always had and continue to have.

Give back the properties of the GC side that you currently hold as a hostage and then we can happily negotiate forever if you like.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:44 am

we will work hard for positive steps that will enable us to improve economically and in time if we are patient very patient, whos knows the TRNC may be recognized


Too bad that you will be trying to do all this in a land that does not belong to you and that you will eventually loose to its real owners. Don't you feel pity putting all this energy for nothing? Anyways, go on and waste your time and effort if you like.

you are still pursuing this very childish attitude, the spoilt child that had his sweeties taken away

You didn't take our "sweets". You took away our land by performing a barbaric ethnic cleansing against us.

GCs that rejected a plan that would have united the island

GCs rejected an American made plan that would officially partition the island.

So to resolve the issue you have to agree a comprehensive solution with TCs that we can all commit to, before you can get your land back.

Oh really? The problem with this is that you do not agree on anything that would give to us our land back.

If you are confident in your leadership and that they will make progress then you have absoulutely nothing to worry abour do you???

Who said I worry?? I am just making myself clear in order not to have any kind of misunderstanding in the future. I offered to you one united democratic Cyprus were the 100% of human and minority rights are respected and were the TC community will receive equal treatment as the GC community and guaranteed (and even boosted) representation in the government. You reject all this. What you want is a racist separation, racist discrimination and a solution based on the ethnic cleansing you performed. Just remember what we offered and what your choice was. Let your children know about your choice.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:19 pm

Piratis
Too bad that you will be trying to do all this in a land that does not belong to you and that you will eventually loose to its real owners. Don't you feel pity putting all this energy for nothing? Anyways, go on and waste your time and effort if you like.


Thank you for your permission.

GCs rejected an American made plan that would officially partition the island.


Thats your opinion which your entitled to but the TCs UN EU USA Turkey Greece dont agree with you..


Oh really? The problem with this is that you do not agree on anything that would give to us our land back.


Hate to have to remind you again but the Annan plan gave you your land back you rejected it, the amount to be returned is another question and can be argued, but the principle is you had an opportunity for a large number of refugees to return but this was not enough and you refused.
So dont go on about me not wanting to return your land all the time it was offered you refused.

I offered to you one united democratic Cyprus were the 100% of human and minority rights are respected and were the TC community will receive equal treatment as the GC community and guaranteed (and even boosted) representation in the government. You reject all this.


Was this in 1960-1974???

What you want is a racist separation, racist discrimination and a solution based on the ethnic cleansing you performed. Just remember what we offered and what your choice was. Let your children know about your choice.


The above statement confirms that you do not have a clue as to what TCs want, and our children are well aware of the choices before us....your stance is clear for the world to see...
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