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Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby kimon07 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:06 pm

Lordo wrote:when AKEL cowardly joined Enosis movement. Thankfully they realised their mistake in 1990...


You must be joking.

AKEL, being a slave Stalinist Communist Party of the worse kind, was always against Enosis because according to the Soviet Masters of AKEL, Enosis would result to turning Cyprus into a NATO base.
The soviets, on the other hand, were against EOKA and so was AKEL because EOKA snatched from them the opportunity to start their own "Anti-Colonial" revolt while EOKAS's was a National one (not anti colonial).
Why did Akel oppose Makarios in the first elections when the republic was formed? Because they were against "Enosis" and Makarios was thought to be pro-"Enosis".
When did they side with him and supported him wholeheartedly? During the early seventies when it became evident that his policy was against "Enosis"
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:50 pm

Hermes wrote:And here is VP's reply:

Just as there were GCs that opposed or held differing views from the eoka terrorists and were killed there were also TCs who also had differing views to that of TMT who were targeted, this does not mean they supported enosis.


Thank you, VP. So the TMT terrorists were killing people for reasons OTHER than they supported enosis or union with Greece. And these reasons could only be that their victims didn't support the TMT's aims of partition and division. In order to further this aim they murdered innocent TC activists who advocated peaceful co-existence. This is a correct interpretation, don't you think?



This holds true for both sides.
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:57 pm

Hermes wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Hermes wrote:Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

For the same reason EOKA B murdered Greek Cypriots!

Treason is the betrayal of one’s country because of allegiance to a foreign country.


Thank you, GR. The TMT terrorists are the Turkish Cypriot equivalent of the reviled thugs EOKA B. So when Birkibrisli says that the TMT terrorists are regarded by most TCs as the TC's "saviours", what is he talking about? I thought they were no better than thugs, psychopaths and proxies of the Turkish government. How could they be the "saviours" of the TCs?


TMT was a direct response to eoka and enosis. For this reason they are regarded as heros and saviours of TCs who were being persecuted and terrorized by GCs/eoka.
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby humanist » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:17 pm

Afetr having been on this forum for over 5 years I believe that the TC's are holding the key to both the future of Cyprus and themselves, however, they are simple people who cannot see that they are not moving forward and that they will not be allowed to annex Cyprus as an independent country. really the best option is for them is to trust that they will be protected as all other EU citizens are and that human rights charter will protect them also. Evebn though this charter is failing 200,000 refugees
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Hermes » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:17 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Hermes wrote:And here is VP's reply:

Just as there were GCs that opposed or held differing views from the eoka terrorists and were killed there were also TCs who also had differing views to that of TMT who were targeted, this does not mean they supported enosis.


Thank you, VP. So the TMT terrorists were killing people for reasons OTHER than they supported enosis or union with Greece. And these reasons could only be that their victims didn't support the TMT's aims of partition and division. In order to further this aim they murdered innocent TC activists who advocated peaceful co-existence. This is a correct interpretation, don't you think?



This holds true for both sides.

So we're agreed that peaceful co-existence was not the aim of the TMT. In fact, they targeted and murdered members of their own community who opposed their partitionist agenda. They were not simply opposed to the GCs who were fighting for union with Greece. They were also opposed to TCs who advocated peaceful co-existence. They in fact terrorised innocent Turkish Cypriots as well as GCs. In fact we can go further. This was not the aim of the TMT terrorists only. It was also the political aim of the Turkish Cypriot leadership.The UN Secretary General of the time accused the Turkish Cypriot leadership of deliberately pursuing a policy of self-segregation of the Turkish Cypriots:

The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots.


So we can see how it is that the TMT terrorists in co-ordination with the TC leadership pushed Cyprus further away from the possibility of peaceful coexistence among its people to a state of civil war requiring UN intervention, in order to prove that peaceful coexistence was not an option. This is why they also killed those TCs who desired peaceful co-existence. Because peaceful co-existence was anathema in principle to the Turkish Cypriot leadership. And they did everything in their power to make sure that peace and co-existence was impossible on the island through - as the UN Secretary General called it: a deliberate policy of self-segregation.
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Hermes » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:31 pm

Viewpoint wrote:TMT was a direct response to eoka and enosis. For this reason they are regarded as heros and saviours of TCs who were being persecuted and terrorized by GCs/eoka.


But the TMT are not heroes and saviours to those Turkish Cypriots who they murdered and terrorized are they? They cannot be "saviours" of people they murdered can they? Besides I thought we agreed that the TCs who were murdered by the TMT were not killed because they advocated enosis. But because they advocated peaceful co-existence!

Further, we can see that the self-segregation of the TCs led them away from peaceful co-existence on the island into a world of enclaves and isolation. A policy that is reflected to this day.

So rather than "saviours" of the TCs, another way of looking at it is that the TMT terrorists and the TC leadership deliberately followed a policy that led the TCs into segregation, isolation and away from peace and co-existence. Isn't this why the TMT terrorists killed Turkish Cypriots? The TMT and TC leadership in effect sacrificed their own community in pursuit of a political aim that was not in the TCs interests but of their political masters in Ankara.
Last edited by Hermes on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby humanist » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:33 pm

The only way they did this however, it was the need for the leader at the time to control a whole community. He has been a dictator no different to those seen in the middle east
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:39 am

Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Hermes wrote:And here is VP's reply:

Just as there were GCs that opposed or held differing views from the eoka terrorists and were killed there were also TCs who also had differing views to that of TMT who were targeted, this does not mean they supported enosis.


Thank you, VP. So the TMT terrorists were killing people for reasons OTHER than they supported enosis or union with Greece. And these reasons could only be that their victims didn't support the TMT's aims of partition and division. In order to further this aim they murdered innocent TC activists who advocated peaceful co-existence. This is a correct interpretation, don't you think?



This holds true for both sides.

So we're agreed that peaceful co-existence was not the aim of the TMT. In fact, they targeted and murdered members of their own community who opposed their partitionist agenda. They were not simply opposed to the GCs who were fighting for union with Greece. They were also opposed to TCs who advocated peaceful co-existence. They in fact terrorised innocent Turkish Cypriots as well as GCs. In fact we can go further. This was not the aim of the TMT terrorists only. It was also the political aim of the Turkish Cypriot leadership.The UN Secretary General of the time accused the Turkish Cypriot leadership of deliberately pursuing a policy of self-segregation of the Turkish Cypriots:

The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots.


So we can see how it is that the TMT terrorists in co-ordination with the TC leadership pushed Cyprus further away from the possibility of peaceful coexistence among its people to a state of civil war requiring UN intervention, in order to prove that peaceful coexistence was not an option. This is why they also killed those TCs who desired peaceful co-existence. Because peaceful co-existence was anathema in principle to the Turkish Cypriot leadership. And they did everything in their power to make sure that peace and co-existence was impossible on the island through - as the UN Secretary General called it: a deliberate policy of self-segregation.


And this was while the Gcs were doing what exactly could you kindly clarify that point for us as well and include which came first enosis or taksim?
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:02 am

Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:TMT was a direct response to eoka and enosis. For this reason they are regarded as heros and saviours of TCs who were being persecuted and terrorized by GCs/eoka.


But the TMT are not heroes and saviours to those Turkish Cypriots who they murdered and terrorized are they? They cannot be "saviours" of people they murdered can they? Besides I thought we agreed that the TCs who were murdered by the TMT were not killed because they advocated enosis. But because they advocated peaceful co-existence!

Further, we can see that the self-segregation of the TCs led them away from peaceful co-existence on the island into a world of enclaves and isolation. A policy that is reflected to this day.

So rather than "saviours" of the TCs, another way of looking at it is that the TMT terrorists and the TC leadership deliberately followed a policy that led the TCs into segregation, isolation and away from peace and co-existence. Isn't this why the TMT terrorists killed Turkish Cypriots? The TMT and TC leadership in effect sacrificed their own community in pursuit of a political aim that was not in the TCs interests but of their political masters in Ankara.


Did you read and memorize this from your school books? you are trying very hard to paint a picture by twisting what actually happened the TMT was a direct response to your very own Eoka, while you GCs were trying to gift the whole island to Greece with or without its TCs population and against their will, the TCs were not going to sit back and let you walk over them so they fought back with the ideology Taksim and the TMT sprang into action. Just like the terrorists Eoka
who killed not only Brits and TCs for their cause but also innocent GCs who didnt want to give their country away and only wanted to live peacefully, TMT also protected their people from these attacks from eoka/Gcs and of course Tcs who betrayed them or acted against their cause also put themselves at risk pretty much the same as the GCs did against the eoka terrorists.

TMT also acted as protectors of Tcs who were forced by GCs to abandon their homes and run scared into enclaves for their own safety, that's why they are veered as heros and saviours as they stood guard and against the ekoa terrorists who would also killed those Tcs who went into the GC areas, whos father was it that went to work in the GC areas and never returned, there are many incidents like this when innocent Tcs thought that GCs were their friends and that they were safe only to find out that that was not the case.

Hermes you cannot separate eoka and tmt as one was only born due to the other if it were not for your enosis dream and eoka there would never have been tmt. Please also note that your ultimate goal was to give the whole island to Greece and turn Cyprus into a Greek island, our goal of division was for more humane as we opted to share and not force you to accept the whole island becoming Turkish.

TMT will also be viewed as heros to the TCs theres absolutely nothing you can say or do that will change that just as we cannot change your view of the eoka terrorists being the GCs heros.
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Re: Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Hermes » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:09 am

Viewpoint wrote:
And this was while the Gcs were doing what exactly could you kindly clarify that point for us as well and include which came first enosis or taksim?


Thank you for your reply, Viewpoint. A good question. Let me answer it like this. It's very easy to get involved in games of what came first. So let's go back to what we can be sure of. For example, it's on historical record that the Turkish Cypriot terrorist organisation, the TMT, instigated the wave of communal clashes in Cyprus in 1958 when they planted a bomb outside the Turkish consulate in Nicosia. They subsequently blamed the Greeks and instigated riots, burning and attacking Greek Cypriot property in the surrounding areas. It was later confirmed by Rauf Denktash, the leader of the T/Cs, that the bomb was planted by Turks to foment clashes between Greek and Turkish Cypriots. A few days after the bomb was planted by Turkish terrorists, several Greek Cypriots were murdered outside a Turkish village.

Before the actions of the TMT in 1958 most Cypriots lived in a state of relatively peaceful co-existence. After the end of the colonial struggle against the British, that is after independence in 1960, the TMT and TC leadership intensified their efforts for self-segregation and partition and did everything in their power to prevent a peaceful co-existence. In response, the GCs had no option but to defend themselves from this insurgency in their midst.

As I said previously, TMT terrorism cannot be justified as a response to enosis because why would the TMT terrorists be murdering innocent TC activists between 1958 and 1964? These murdered activists were not known as supporters of enosis. Indeed the only reason they were murdered was because they advocated peaceful co-existence. Not enosis. My conclusion, as it was at the time of the UN Secretary General, is that the TMT terrorists and the Turkish leadership were involved in a political campaign to make Cyprus ungovernable, to foment civil war and to enforce self-segregation upon the TCs.

In the midst of this Turkish-inspired turmoil I think questions of what came first (enosis or taxsim) are therefore not strictly relevant. Because the TMT were not responding to GC demands for enosis during the colonial struggle but to Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence between GCs and TCs. I hope that is clear. And that is why the TMT terrorists killed innocent Turkish Cypriots. There can be no other explanation.
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