Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

TMT might have been a Turkish creation, but it could only flourish with British help ane encouragement. While EOKA managed to dominate the countryside, TMT was an urban force, its anti GC actions were almost all urban and on a mass scale. It would have been easy for the British to arrest the perpetrators. Instead they let them carry out their actions, often in daylight and in plain view of British forces. This is how it happened in our area in Nicosia, I was there, I saw it. IIt was natural for a group that was set up to mibolise large crowds to want exclusive control of the TC community, and naturally it eliminated all potential rivals who might have put up obstacles.

Using the TMT the British outflanked EOKA even though they could not have outfought it. It was good tactics, but in the long term, in strategic terms, it was a dead loss. Britain has become the minor power in Cyprus.

But the British have left an open geopolitical problem. Geopolitics is not the strong point in this forum. But whether we like it or not, the evacuation of the British bases, which will come eventually, will create a huge problem. And it helps to repeat it: any settlement which does not specify clearly and beyond ambiguity, EXACTLY what will happen with the SBA areas if and when the British leave them, will lead to conflict. In fact Turkey is counting on that. We ignore it at our peril.

The Annan plan was a cunning attempt to revamp the SBAs and make them more attractive for their future occupiers, complete with expanded territorial waters, continental shelf and EEZ. It sounded outlandish six years ago to talk of such things, today we refer to the EEZ daily. That should be a useful indicator of what might happen.

[Hermes]

The bogey man never existed so are you now saying that enosis never existed?

Of course I'm not saying the desire for enosis never existed. I'm saying that enosis doesn't explain why the TMT killed Turkish Cypriot activists in the 1950s and 60s. Because these activists were clearly not agitating for enosis. So then I'm asking a simple question: why did the TMT murder these people?

There is only one explanation. The TMT were engaged in a terror strategy of self-segregation, imposed as a deliberate policy, to undermine the possibility of peace and co-existence on the island. The deaths of those innocent TCs at the hands of TMT militias tells us that the TMT were involved in something other than a fight against enosis. Therefore to bring up enosis is to bring up a phantom. Because it doesn't explain why these people were killed.

You can try and blame their deaths on enosis by saying they were "traitors" or "dupes" but that just makes you look foolish as there is no evidence they were either. No matter how hard you try you always come back to the original question: why did the TMT kill innocent TC activists? And the answer cannot be enosis. Because these murdered activists were not agitating for enosis but for peaceful co-existence.

And that is why they were killed.

[Bananiot]

The British had interests in Cyprus (that is why they were here) but so did Turkey, or at least we reminded Turkey of the role she could play in this area. This is normal in most cases, let alone in a place of such geostrategic importance. We did not know about the gas then but the rich Arab deposits were too close to call, especially in the midst of the cold war.

Did we take all these into account when we went hell bent for enosis? Did we stop to think about the way the Brits would react once we started killing and murdering British soldiers and civilians (including 18 year old girls) in the name of enosis? Is there anyone who seriously argues that we are the hard done side for no apparent reason?

The Annan Plan, according to Nikitas, gave continental shelf and EEZ to the Sov. Bases. He also seems to have fallen victim to the lies invented at the time to scare off people. However, he seems to like it.

Hermes, you are asking a question that has been answered quite comprehensively by historians. TMT wanted taksim and our side enosis. Both sides employed similar tactics to try to reach the stated objective. There is nothing mystifying about this. Anyone who even vaguely suggested a different future for Cyprus was seen as a traitor by his community which by now was committed to these objectives. Traitors are expendible as you know and nobody pays any sort of a penalty for executing a traitor. GCs and TCs who campaigned for peaceful coexistence, friendship and cooperation between the two communities, met their creator much earlier than intended, in the hands of the fascists that some years later destroyed Cyprus.

Long live the memory of those pioneers that shed their blood for the most important of human values they struggled for throughout their short lives!

[Viewpoint]

The bogey man never existed so are you now saying that enosis never existed?

Of course I'm not saying the desire for enosis never existed. I'm saying that enosis doesn't explain why the TMT killed Turkish Cypriot activists in the 1950s and 60s. Because these activists were clearly not agitating for enosis. So then I'm asking a simple question: why did the TMT murder these people?

There is only one explanation. The TMT were engaged in a terror strategy of self-segregation, imposed as a deliberate policy, to undermine the possibility of peace and co-existence on the island. The deaths of those innocent TCs at the hands of TMT militias tells us that the TMT were involved in something other than a fight against enosis. Therefore to bring up enosis is to bring up a phantom. Because it doesn't explain why these people were killed.

You can try and blame their deaths on enosis by saying they were "traitors" or "dupes" but that just makes you look foolish as there is no evidence they were either. No matter how hard you try you always come back to the original question: why did the TMT kill innocent TC activists? And the answer cannot be enosis. Because these murdered activists were not agitating for enosis but for peaceful co-existence.

And that is why they were killed.

Hermes look your enosis dream never faded, the underlying current even after independence was towards enosis, the 1974 coup being the eruption that culminated in your losing 37% of the island. Now the ideology of taksim only came about as a direct response to enosis, my father in law confirms that the mindset of TCs at the time was if you GCs are going to try and give away our country ignoring us and placing us in great danger we have to fight back and create ourselves a safe haven our own area hey presto taksim ideology. So hermes come out of your despot mentality and understand that while fighting for a cause as you did with enosis anyone seen as collaborating with the enemy is considered a traitor and just like eoka killed innocent GCs for wanting independence and co existence tmt also killed those who stood in her way....the fact that you claim there was no longer a desire for enosis and that GCs wanted independence and co existence with TCs is an outright lie. The pervert makarios speaches clearly state union with Greece, the poor TCs who were AKEL members were thrown into the fire because the party started to support enosis, persecution to get rid of TCs encouraging them to move abroad, active purchasing of TC land and the Akritas plan all prove you are not only blind but a liar of the highest order. Statements from living TCs also confirm that enosis was very much alive and kicking during 1960 to 1974.

Now that we have established that without enosis taksim would never have been born, we have also clarified that for their cause be it enosis or taksim people seen as collaborating with enemy were targeted and killed...so I am man enough to accept our share of the blame which i believe is far less due to being the minority and only instigating taksim in direct response to your enosis....but are you man enough to accept the blame for enosis being the catalyst for the current situation of today, division.

[Get Real!]

Basically, Hermes is trying to peddle the fallacious but popular Greek theory that the Greek nationalist’s wrong doings in Cyprus were a “lesser” crime than that of the TMT!

And as if that’s not bad enough, he also types pages and pages of baloney just to get this single notion across!

Same goes for VP’s theories/responses where what can be said in a single sentence takes him many screen fulls!

Bananiot, enjoying the chaos just adds fuel to the fire thereby ensuring the roundabout effect!

Keep going boys… you’re not dizzy yet...

[Bananiot]

I don't see any fuel, I do not see a fire, I do not see your point GR.

[Hermes]

Basically, Hermes is trying to peddle the fallacious but popular Greek theory that the Greek nationalist’s wrong doings in Cyprus were a “lesser” crime than that of the TMT!

And as if that’s not bad enough, he also types pages and pages of baloney just to get this single notion across!

Sometimes you bait a trap and any old fool comes along and falls into it! I repeat for the benefit of numbskulls like Get Real, as well as Viewpoint, that the question is: 'Why did the TMT kill innocent TC activists well into the 1960s?' And the answer is not because they were the same as Eoka (GR's answer by the looks of it). Or because they were opposed to enosis (Viewpoint's answer). Neither of those would explain the question.

I am only interested in one question. What was the purpose of killing innocent TC activists? Now please stop trying to evade the question and turn it into an issue of who was worse or better than who. Stop bringing your obsessions into this and keep to the question.

[Viewpoint]

Basically, Hermes is trying to peddle the fallacious but popular Greek theory that the Greek nationalist’s wrong doings in Cyprus were a “lesser” crime than that of the TMT!

And as if that’s not bad enough, he also types pages and pages of baloney just to get this single notion across!

Sometimes you bait a trap and any old fool comes along and falls into it! I repeat for the benefit of numbskulls like Get Real, as well as Viewpoint, that the question is: 'Why did the TMT kill innocent TC activists well into the 1960s?' And the answer is not because they were the same as Eoka (GR's answer by the looks of it). Or because they were opposed to enosis (Viewpoint's answer). Neither of those would explain the question.

I am only interested in one question. What was the purpose of killing innocent TC activists? Now please stop trying to evade the question and turn it into an issue of who was worse or better than who. Stop bringing your obsessions into this and keep to the question.

So lets ignore the cause and look at the result, I give up, its confirmed you are a total moron.

[Hermes]

So lets ignore the cause and look at the result, I give up, its confirmed you are a total moron.

Wrong again! I am looking at exactly the CAUSE you dumbass! What CAUSED the TMT to kill innocent Turkish Cypriot activists? I am interested only in the CAUSE. Whereas you want to find EXCUSES and PRETEXTS. Stick to the CAUSE, please!

[Bananiot]

Taksim and enosis, Hermes. Two nationalisms fighting it out to the bitter end. Ours ended up on the receiving end. As simple as that. In this bitter fight there was no room for sane, balanced people who could see beyond their nose. They had to be eliminated. The executors are now the heroes of their communities. No prison for them. No punishment, and as we speak, the son of one of our "heroes" will probably become the next Mayor of Nicosia. We still reward them. We will never learn even when the end is on sight.