Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

All my predictions regarding Turkey-EU are coming true so far:

Failure to scrap the trade curbs by the end of next year would have ``serious implications'' and ``could even lead to a halting of the negotiating process,'' says the non-binding text due to be approved later today in Strasbourg, France. The 732-seat EU parliament is a barometer of European public opinion.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=europe


http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 2006#57822

Turkey should know that if she doesn't start making the necessary steps (that will lead to her EU accession and the end of the occupation - among other things) then not only they will not become an EU member but they will not even manage to be in the accession process for too long (just the accession process is hugely profitable for Turkey)

[cmantas_liberal]

hrm.. what about today's parliament decision? 311 vs 280 said in a way no to the turkish bid..... they asked for a 'delay' of the talks...in addition they asked from turkey to recognize the armenian genocide..in few words they push turkey to say NO to EU.

Austria and france will also call referendums in the near future.

[akiner]

hrm.. what about today's parliament decision? 311 vs 280 said in a way no to the turkish bid..... they asked for a 'delay' of the talks...in addition they asked from turkey to recognize the armenian genocide..in few words they push turkey to say NO to EU.

Austria and france will also call referendums in the near future.

What a hilarious day, but government of Erdoğan is still trying to keep process in a warm position

[cmantas_liberal]

in a short...EU cant stand any other expansion..lets see the current one and come back to discuss it in 30-40 years.....

[Sotos]

in a short...EU cant stand any other expansion..lets see the current one and come back to discuss it in 30-40 years.....

I think Turkey applied 40 years ago Imagine if they will have to wait 1 century from the day they applied until the day they were accepted

[Piratis]

in few words they push turkey to say NO to EU.

Which is something very soft. EU is being extremely lenient to Turkey. Do you think they would accept Poland, Lithuania, Cyprus etc if one of these countries declared that they don't recognize one of the original 15 EU members and had an embargo against it?

I believe Turkey has misunderstood the goodwill of EU and they are trying to take advantage of it. They want to violate international laws, occupy part of a neighboring EU country, violate human rights etc, and be reworded on top of that!!

It reminds of me of the TCs that wanted a kind of "union" that would allow them to continue to violate our human rights and occupy our lands while at the same time be rewarded for this. Turkey thinks they can play the same game on EU.

If Turks do not change their mentality then Europeans will naturally not want them and Turkey will remain a 3rd world country.

EU is now giving Turkey a change. If they will make the steps for progress (and join) is up to them. If they refuse to make these steps then they should only blame themselves and not EU.

[akiner]

If Turks do not change their mentality then Europeans will naturally not want them and Turkey will remain a 3rd world country.

What is your criteria to create such a list like that?! And how could Southern Greek Administration, Greece or Poland not to get in that list but Turkey could

[garbitsch]

Pirati you are even getting funnier... EU is giving Turkey a chance??? How can you be so sure that if Turkey pulls back her troops from Cyprus, recognises ROC and Armenian genocide, it will become an EU member state?? Besides these decisions of the Parliament are not binding... I wonder why EU does not force its member state (UK) to pull back her troops from a sovereign state (Iraq), which had illegally invaded. Dont read me the story that EU states are democratic and civilised, which the currenct Turkey has no place. I laugh my ass off...

[Piratis]

How can you be so sure that if Turkey pulls back her troops from Cyprus, recognises ROC and Armenian genocide, it will become an EU member state??

These are some major steps. Others include better treatment of the Kurdish minority, better human rights record etc. I am not saying that Turkey has to change overnight. What I am saying is that they have to start making steps so in about 15 years they can become members. If they are unwilling to make these steps then whats the point of the accession process?
If Turks say: "This is how we are, we will not change anything, take us or leave us", then there is no need for any kind of process, EU will simply say "no thanks" and thats it.

When Cyprus was in this process we had to change several things. We also had to improve our human rights (e.g. change laws about gay people). Turkey instead of making these positive steps is trying to find excuses.

I wonder why EU does not force its member state (UK) to pull back her troops from a sovereign state (Iraq), which had illegally invaded.

EU is not the UN. EU is a union of countries. Turkey is illegally occupying EU ground. How can they want to be part of EU and at the same time illegally occupy EU land and violate the human rights of EU citizens?

Dont read me the story that EU states are democratic and civilised, which the currenct Turkey has no place. I laugh my ass off...

This is the Turkish mentality I was talking about. Instead of making progress you are trying to find excuses. Is there any doubt that in Turkey, were the army controls everything, democracy is far behind other EU countries? Is there any doubt that the human rights record of Turkey is far bellow EU standards?

EU didn't ask from Turkey to become perfect. What is asked is 1) to respect the countries of the union and 2) to make the necessary steps to reach the EU standards. Is this too much to ask from Turkey?

[garbitsch]

EU is asking Turkey to transform into some kind of state, which would be easy for the European countries to divide and destroy it. This is the hidden agenda, which now I am realising. There are double standards posed on Turkey and they are asking things that Turkey will never agree. They have even asked to remove the portraits of Ataturk from the governmental offices. I wonder if they had asked the same from other European countries!!!

Turkey is willing to transform and it has been tranformed dramatically. I know you still thing nothing has happened but the fact is that Turkey is getting more and more democratic. For instance, the protests by PKK partisans faced no reaction from the police. Likewise, the fundementalist Hiz-but supporters were not arrested. The number of civilians had increased in the national security council and as you can see the army is silent (well you will now claiming that they are silent but in fact they are not). Even in Cyprus, although I agree Annan Plan was unfair for you guys, but at least it was a big step and believe me in Turkey they people were so angry at AKP, which they thought was selling out Cyprus to Greeks. You cannot how many fights I made with my Turkish friends claiming that this didn't mean "selling out of Cyprus" and I agreed that stationing 40000 Turkish soldiers on the island has not the only aim to protect the Turkish Cypriot community.

Even in the economic terms, many state own firms were privitised and as a result many people became unemployed. The aspect that Turkey is not willing to give away are as such:

1- Recognition of RoC and pulling the troops back from Cyprus. Asking for these means that you do not want an agreement but you want to benefit from the status quo. Why dont you ask yourself "why my government doesnt make a step for a solution". Why dont you propose things? Why do you expect every thing from us?? Papadopulos does not want to sit and talk with Talat. The only thing he is concerned is to use EU membership as a means to get compromises from Turkey... Why doesn't he just say "we want a true solution without expecting Turkey to do every thing". You will first ask recognition, then pulling back from Cyprus, then abolution of the border and then absorbation of Turkish Cypriots into the RoC. If this is the policy, then please do not trick us by claiming that the Greek side is willing to compromise on a federal solution.

2- Turkey is not willing to recognise the Armenian genocide. But we've been discussing this for ages in this forum, I ask you kindly not to open it again. But I am guessing that Turkey is afraid of such recognition will follow paying compensations and even giving away some part of its territory. Can EU guarantee Turkey's territorial integrity? Why doesn't EU pressure Armenia to pull back from the Azerbaijani territory it occupied? Did any of Spain, Portugal, France and Britain recognise the genocides and mass murderings they had performed in America, Africa and Asia?? I tell you another double standard: When the women protestors were beaten by the Turkish police, all of the EU officials protested this and blamed Turkey for being undemocratic. Fine. What respond had they given to the globalisation protestor who was killed by the Italian police in 2002? Don't Greek police beat any protestors???

3- The Kurdish problem is also a big headache in Turkey. We all know that Kurds had been refered as "Mountain Turks" and their existence was denied. But when we look at the Laussaine Treaty, we see no mention of Kurdish minority. Just like there is no mention of Turkish minority in Greece. Why didn't EU make you guys accept your own ethnic minorities, but they are doing the opposite to Turkey? I am not saying that Turkey should justify her treatment of minorities with this. And I agree that the so called minorities in Greece are better treated. But according to Human Rights Watch, any one who identifies himself with the ethnic identity other than Greek is highly persecuted and denied... Besides the Turks who had moved to Turkey are deprived of their Greek citizenship and their properties were expropriated. These were not also a requirement for the Greek accession to EU.

4- The EU is not promissing Turkey a full membership, even if Turkey will meet the criteria. Turkey's membership will be voted in France and in Austria, and we all know the result... Can you guarantee that Piratis?