Cyprus-Forum.com

by **barouti** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:08 pm

boomerang wrote:barouti, there was a double enosis scheeme between greece and turkey...hence after so may years not making the cyprus file available...they thought it would have been a walk in the park...

I'm not too sure what you're referring to by "double enosis scheme between greece and turkey". Are you claiming there was a secret deal between Greece and Turkey to divide Cyprus? And Greece supporting the reunification of Cyprus all these years is like a smoke-screen to "fool" you into thinking we're on your side when we're really we're not. Yeah, well, time to take of the tin-foil hat, me thinks, because when you start talking about secret files we enter into the abode of conspiracy theories and where I usually respond with "Zzzzzzzzz". Boom-Boom, you need to stop viewing Greece as an enemy of Cyprus. You're starting to sound too much like Mr Limey eg "Greece wants to destroy Cyprus" :roll:

And that can never be good because you risk entering his alternative universe where there can be no escape. Do you really want your girlfriend to be a talking unicorn? :lol:

regarding the imia crisis, yes the turks complained to clinton, and the yanks ordered the greeks to back off leaving the imia unresolved, with greece losing sovereignity...to this date is a grey area...why is that?...

mighty greece to this very date can't declare 12 nautical miles...what is the excuse here?

"Mighty Greece" LOL. Greece is a small nation. But STILL!!!! We're still keeping the mighty Turks (now they're the ones who think they're mighty) at bay, and our Nato and EU allies (for how long if Ts-ts-ts-tsipras --there I said it-- gets into power) have told Mr Limey's friends in his imaginery world, that being the Skoppy-Skop-Skops, still need to change their name

. Re Imia, Greece didnt lose any sovereignty. Territorial pissing by planting flags is the Turkish thing, not the Greek thing. There is no Turkish flag on Imia. End of that story. You need to mellow down with the anti-Greek rhetoric because all you're doing is making posters such as a Viewpoint and Mr Limey reach down for their groin areas. They both blame Greece and which therefore justifies the division in their eyes. And wouldn't you rather want to get along with another Greek such as myself over those two.

i am teeling you a pussy nation that can't be depended to come to anynones rescue since they can't even look after their own sovereiginity...

so forgeting cyprus for a minute, the greeks are 2 time pussies when it comes to greece...

and since this reziliki, watch the turks walk all over them and declare half the aegean...mark my words on this one...coz the greeks would sell their own mum for peanuts...

Well, despite the grunting and fist-waving, the Turks have yet to walkover and declare half the aegean. And how many times have they threatened to annex northern Cyprus and yet still haven't. And they also threatened to send in their warships to challenge Israel regarding the gasfields and well....you're really giving the Turks too much credit, dude! :lol:

greeks today are cashing on the glory of the ancients....

That's called tourism.

today they became bitches to europe....they lied and cheated to get in the eurozone, abused the system, got found out and today they will have a new master regardless if they stay in the eurozone or not...greeks need a master...

koumbare does this make sense to you?
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder foams up about their waists. And all the whores and polititians will look up and shout "Save us" and I'll look down and whisper 'No'."

That's Rorschach from Watchmen. And are you hoping that's what Cyprus is going to tell Greece when you get the EU presidency? :lol:

by **wyoming cowboy** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:14 pm

@boom......I am 100% positive you will be eating your anti-Greek words soon....dont be too surprised that by the end of this economic fiasco in europe, Greece and Cyprus will end up saving the euro and the European Union......It may seem like a paradox to you today, but my speculative guess tells me that the above statement will come true......And no Greece will NOT leave the euro, thats included with my speculative guess.

by **kimon07** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:56 pm

wyoming cowboy wrote:......I am 100% positive you will be eating your anti-Greek words soon....dont be too surprised that by the end of this economic fiasco in europe, Greece and Cyprus will end up saving the euro and the European Union.......

Welcome back. And try not to get kicked out....

by **Bananiot** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:00 pm

Barouti is a man on a mission, it seems. Greece was ready to ramble in 1964, he boasts. In reality, the Turkish air force was bombing Kokkina during the day and the Royal Greek air force, made sporadic, short appearances over Nicosia during the night. To boost the moral of the GC's. Of course the Americas are to blame again for not allowing Greece to teach those Turks a lesson. Enough with the fairy tales Barouti, we have lost half of our country ... leave us alone!

by **kimon07** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:36 pm

barouti wrote:Um, that was the Junta, those poustides who all died in prison like the dogs they were.

Are you on a mission Baruti?

To prove otherwise, you must come to Cyprus and go offer some flowers to the turkish army. As you know, in 1974 they came to save us Greek Cypriots from you monsters :lol:

But being so very stupid we didn't realise that and we foolishly resisted. So we.... got what we deserved from our....saviors. No, No Grivas, Tasos Papadopoulos, Pallikarides, Afxendiou, Kyriakos Matsis, Markos Drakos, Karaolis, Demetriou and the rest of them were NOT heroes. Fascist-Nationalist thugs they were. Don't you agree? No? Well, you are wrong! Ask our president (and some school teachers) if you don't believe me.

by **boomerang** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:51 pm

Originally Posted by Brendan O'Malley at MIT

In 1971 NATO powers once more began secret talks on the future of Cyprus in Lisbon and Paris. US analysts believed a deal for double enosis was on the cards, but it would have to be initiated by Greek action against Makarios because this could be passed off as an internal affair between Greeks, and would stand more chance of avoiding Soviet intervention. A senior Turkish official reported that at the talks Turkey demanded a break-up of the Cypriot state and the Greeks seemed willing to offer a military base.

Following the meeting, Grivas who had been pulled out of Cyprus in 1967, was allowed to return to set up a second EOKA organisation called EOKA-B, dedicated to the overthrow of Makarios and union with Greece. Cypriot officials later told former US Ambassador Taylor Belcher in the strongest terms that there was documentary evidence that the CIA was financing EOKA-B through money passed through the Junta in Athens

Makarios, on the other hand, sought to bolster his position by making an eight-day visit to Moscow and landing Czech arms to prepare against a possible coup. This prompted more fears in the West that he was becoming a Castro of the Mediterranean who, backed by the strongest communist party in the Middle East, might hand the island to the Eastern Bloc, allowing the Soviets to turn the south-eastern flank of NATO.

There is some evidence to suggest a co-ordinated response by Greece and Turkey. When, in retaliation, Papadopoulos ordered a coup against Makarios in February 1972 the Turks and Turkish Cypriots were informed of the plan in advance, which ties in with the schemes for double-enosis mooted by the

Americans and at NATO. Glafkos Clerides told me that Makarios's intelligence services first heard of the danger of that coup from decoding messages sent from Turkey to the Turkish Cypriots telling them to store food in their homes and to be on alert.

SNIP

Callaghan said "high-level" State Department officials repeatedly made representations urging the British not to abandon their bases and intelligence stations. This was a very serious issue for the Americans because under an annex to Cyprus's 1960 independence agreements, negotiated after the main framework was in place, the Americans could not have taken over the running of the British spying sites in the bases or Cypriot territory if Britain pulled out. Callaghan told me: "The Cold War was hotting up and and there were new Soviet missile test facilities being developed near the Caspian Sea, which we were able to look over. So the Americans didn't want us to go." So when Ioannides decided to try to cut Makarios down to size in July 1974, it gave the Americans the opportunity they had been waiting for to split the island.

On at least seven occasions previously, many of them when the Greeks had taken the law into their own hands on Cyprus, Ankara had mobilised for war only to be held back by pressure from Washington. Given these historical precedents, and the history of the United States talking to each side about the plans to carve up the island between them, decisive American pressure on Ioannides not to stage a coup in Nicosia or on Ecevit not to respond with a military intervention was the only way to prevent the division of the island in 1974.

Damning evidence from the CIA and State Department Bureau of Intelligence shows that Washington was repeatedly warned of the junta's intention to overthrow Makarios and of Turkey's preparations for a retaliatory invasion, but the State Department failed to act to stop them, as it had in the past, when Tasca forcefully warned Papadopoulos against any heavy stuff in 1972 and Johnson issued his explosive veto to Turkey in 1964. CIA analysts reported that in 1974 "more and clearer warning of the coup against Makarios was given in this case than is usual". Yet Tasca testified that he was never given any firm evidence and if he had been he would have turned the place upside down to make sure Ioannides got the message. Communications with Ioannides had been conducted not by him but the CIA and he only knew what the CIA chose to tell him. Ioannides himself later claimed that far from dissuading him, the United States had encouraged him to go ahead with the coup.

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/cyprus-forum/334-uks-murky-role-cyprus-crisis.html

by **humanist** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:06 am

what did greece do in 74 to help cyprus.... Not Much

by **boomerang** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:59 am

barouti wrote:I'm not too sure what you're referring to by "double enosis scheme between greece and turkey". Are you claiming there was a secret deal between Greece and Turkey to divide Cyprus? And Greece supporting the reunification of Cyprus all these years is like a smoke-screen to "fool" you into thinking we're on your side when we're really we're not.

rhetoric stemming from greece while signed away the turks staying in cyprus for ever are falling on deaf ears as far as everyone is conserned...

http://wws.princeton.edu/research/cases/cyprus.pdf
you see it always puzzled me as to why the turks are claimming rights in cyprus...well greece was one of the countries that gave them this right...so yes the answer to your question, greece's rhetoric, nothing but a smoke screen for the fools...

barouti wrote:Greece is a small nation

add no cojones as well, because not small, but tiny cyprus declared her exclusive zone...while greece is pondering extending to 12 nautical miles...any idea as to why greece is not declaring her 12 nautical miles?...can your NATO and EU allies explain this inaction as well?..pussy nation perhaps?...
what more evidence you need that imia is a grey zone, when you say there is no turkish flag mounted but no greek flag either...why is that?...why can't greece put a flag on her territory?...well she had one but the trurks managed to take that away...

the outcome on the imia crisis

‘Humiliation’

“No troops, no boats, no flags” was the telegraphic de-escalation deal devised by Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke, which 55 percent of Greeks polled at the time described as a “national humiliation”, while 18.5 percent termed it a national defeat.

But the documents show Prime Minister Kostas Simitis’ cooperation in the handling of the crisis won him abiding US support.

Under the US-brokered deal, both Greece and Turkey were forced to remove their troops and flags from the two Imia islets, which had already been proven to be Greek sovereign territory. Since then, the islets have been off limits to any Greek, even the shepherd from nearby Kalymnos who kept goats there.

As then US ambassador in Athens Thomas Niles wrote, it also fanned Greek anti-Americanism. Another, informal aspect of the deal was that the then fledgling Greek government, through Foreign Minister Theodoros Pangalos (currently George Papandreou‘s deputy premier), agreed to Ankara’s key demand that it would not exercise Greece’s right to extend its territorial waters from six to 12 miles.

Simitis drew an avalanche of criticism for telling the Greek parliament that he “thanked the Americans” for their mediating the deal (his popularity dropped from 85 percent to 37).

After the crisis, US National Security Advisor Anthony Lake sought a Greek statement that would go far in reaching an understanding with Turkey. The following year, Simitis co-signed with his Turkish counterpart the so-called Madrid Declaration recognising Turkey’s “vital interests” in the Aegean.

Simitis and Pangalos argue that the deal thwarted Turkish aims of Aegean co-sovereignty and broad negotiations over Ankara’s territorial claims, but many still believe the price was steep.
http://www.athensnews.gr/issue/13361/20326?action=print

are we clear now what kind of a pussy nation greece is?...when they are pussies to their own sovereignity what exactly would you expect when it comes to cyprus?...

That's called tourism.

you gotta laugh the greeks cashing on a long gone culture which resembles nothing to today's greeks... :lol:

...you have a point here, no resemblence but lets milk the unsuspecting tourists mentality... :lol:

í like your graphic...but lets not get carried away with wishfull thinking...i took liberty in correcting and reflecting today's situation...pathetic situation...

koumbare i asked you if it means anything to you...a simple answer would have sufficed...ela a yes or a no... :lol:

"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder foams up about their waists. And all the whores and polititians will look up and shout "Save us" and I'll look down and whisper 'No'."

but you linking it to greece one can only hope... :lol:

by **boomerang** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:09 am

Before we proceed any further, I consider it proper to give a short and clear picture of the role played by NATO and the Anglo-Americans in the developments of the Cyprus problem, thus adding vast dimensions to the problem and creating an intractable situation.

There is no doubt that for twenty years the Cyprus problem has been a nuisance for NATO, because it has led to the creation of a rather difficult situation between two of its members, Greece and Turkey. For this reason, NATO did not like the presence of an independent and non-aligned Cyprus State. The United States, too, did not like the presence of the Republic of Cyprus in the Middle East where she had other interests. The political and military influence of the Soviet Union in the Middle East, which was continuously increasing, and the crisis between Arabs and Israelis increased the strategic importance of Cyprus. If the interest of the United States in the Middle Eastern oil is added, Cyprus assumes further importance.

The bloody events of 21 December 1963, which were artificially created, were aimed at the dissolution of the Cyprus Republic and the realization of double Enosis. If all the developments following those events are carefully considered, one can easily reach the conclusion that basically that was the policy of the United States.

The Acheson Plan was the result of that policy. If it had been implemented, the Republic of Cyprus would have dissolved and double Enosis would have taken place, and the island would have been under the influence of NATO and the United States. For this reason, the attempt of the United States was to secure a solution of the Cyprus problem within NATO's framework. Because of this, many times disagreements were created between the United States and the United Nations. One of these disagreements was created over the report of Galo Plaza who had been appointed by the United Nations as a mediator for the Cyprus problem.

Galo Plaza, for quite some time, studied the conditions which prevailed in Cyprus and prepared a report which he submitted in March 1965. In that report, he recommended that the independence and integrity of the Cyprus Republic should be recognized, that Enosis and partition would be put aside and that every foreign intervention should stop. He did not agree to a federal system, which was the Turkish side's aim, because it would have not been, from the political, social and economic points of view, to the advantage of the people of Cyprus as a whole. He believed that such a system would have been impracticable. The report was rejected by Turkey; the United States supported this decision, and Galo Plaza submitted his resignation.

In December 1965, the United States voted against the United Nations' resolution which provided for the independence and integrity of the Cyprus Republic. By voting against, the United States came once more into disagreement with the United Nations. Thus, it was obvious that the United States had decided to carry out the Acheson plan. This plan was rejected by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, while Greece and Turkey had accepted it.

The United States was annoyed by Archbishop Makarios' stand and decided to get rid of him. George Ball's meeting with Grivas, who consented to the enforcement of Acheson's plan, also falls within this framework. When Grivas came to Cyprus in June 1964, sent by the Government of Greece, he was going to serve this aim. A significant role in Grivas' arrival in Cyprus was played by the then Minister of Interior and Defence, Georgadjis, who was a suspect organ of the Anglo-Americans, as has been mentioned elsewhere.

The decision taken during the Ball-Grivas secret meeting was the following: The Greek Government would have declared Enosis, and in return Turkey would have got a military base in Cyprus. Castellorizo would have also been given to Turkey. In Cyprus, a general disarmament would have taken place and the Turkish Cypriots would have had complete autonomy. Another decision taken during that meeting was to attack and dissolve AKEL. This reminds one of the Second World War when, under the pretext of countering communism, a civil war was created causing more suffering and destruction for the Greek nation than those caused by the war itself.

This was the «famous» Acheson plan. The aim of this plan was to create a chaotic situation in Cyprus, resulting in the dissolution of the State and the realization of double Enosis. Some accepted it and had the audacity to accuse the Archbishop of not accepting it. Naturally, these men are none other than those who destroyed this country and created the tragic situation of today for the people of Cyprus as a whole.

http://www.ihsanali.org/Default.aspx?_Page=377&_Control=CTL_Article_ArticleList&_Content=107

i am sure the greeks would have been happy giving a base to the turks in cyprus but not happy losing one of their own rocks...this to me is straight case of betrayal to the greeks of cyprus...greece stabbed them in the back, and in front of everyone...

even grivas the greek implant agreed...

are the greeks in cyprus happy their idol sold them out?...

by **boomerang** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:21 am

wyoming cowboy wrote:@boom......I am 100% positive you will be eating your anti-Greek words soon....dont be too surprised that by the end of this economic fiasco in europe, Greece and Cyprus will end up saving the euro and the European Union......It may seem like a paradox to you today, but my speculative guess tells me that the above statement will come true......And no Greece will NOT leave the euro, thats included with my speculative guess.

yes i know, greece is running workshops to unsuspecting eu members on how to cheat and connive...and how these practises are gonna save the eurozone... :lol:

greece has no industry to start off with...

here is one for you WC...if all the debts were forgiven, how long do you think it would take greece to reach the same level as today?...i would say 6 months on the back of all their experience... :lol: