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An idea to talk about

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby garbitsch » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:01 pm

Did you think that after 30 years of stating that there is no problem in Cyprus, Turkey all of a sudden felt sorry for the poor Cypriots and decided to accept a solution??


You are mistaken here. Turkey has never said Cyprus problem was solved in 1974. At least, this was never the official policy.
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Postby tubegallery » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:02 pm

Tony in reply to your last post as your rightly stated 24% of GC's voted in favour of the Annan plan. I believe the proposal I made in the first post is a definite improvement on the Annan plan, as that plan was clearly leading to a dead end.

The proposal I made in the first post, gives a 1 to 1 vote for the central goverment, not the ridiculous number fudging as proposed in the Annan plan and provides a upper house which also includes 2 extra representatives one each from the Armenian and Maronite communities, removing what would have inevitably been a house that brings the central government to a standstill and stalemate.

I believe my proposal basically does put the GC's in a greater position with regard to the central government, which should be reflected due to their larger population, while at the same time making it a hell of a lot more functional and effective. These improvements are the main differences, and something many GC's will see in a positive light.

And lets not forget 24% voted in favour as it was. Only another 27% need to be persuaded and it goes through. These improvements will go some way to getting those other 27%, some way very close, as I believe under this proposal some of if not one of the major GC parties would get behind it an drag a sizeable number of people into voting yes for it.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:29 pm

Tony-4497

No - the Annan plan's provisions were the opposite of the criteria I mentioned above (right of return, work etc etc).
Chance missed?? Yes, same as the "chance" of having a bullet through one's head.. A new plan would have to be FUNDAMENTALLY better.. otherwise we would much prefer the current situation.


arent you being a little melodramatic?, with the current situation you seem to have what you want...maybe we have just been unable to solve the Cyprus issue just because its unsolvable, have you ever thought about that? then all we can do is adopt your plan (B) you go your way we go ours..

If the TC population was only 18% AND as you admit above they were poorer, then how on earth did they own land of 27%?? As I said, even according to the land registry of the British (who were patrons of the TC community), TC ownership was I believe around 12%


Poorer as in uneducated and much easier to manipulate and take their land rights of them this can all be resolved by independent international specialists board that could decide on if these claims have any foundation and what the TCs actual land % is, we agree to leave it to them.

As proven at the referendum, GC are not the type who can be pushed around when it comes to their land and their national survival. Do not be fooled by the start of negotiations - GC WANTED Turkey to start accession talks more than even the Brits, because that is the only way of raising the stakes and giving Turkey incentives to accept a fair solution in the medium term.


You were not in the EU when we had the referendum therefore you did not have the pressure of the other nations but you are right that it is very much in GCs interests for Turkeys accession course to continue as this is what Tassos is banking on to extract concessions from Turkey and not return to the UN negotiating table. A Turkey not interested in joining the EU would be a catastrophe for GCs which would in effect mean you can kiss any chance to agree any solution with anyone but yoursleves.
But imo as the south applies the pressure on Turkey for concession I feel she to will have to give in on certain issues the ports will be the first test as you demand Turkey to open her ports she will push for ports to recognized in the TRNC. It will be a matter of give and take and the EU viewpoint that GCs should embrace EU values philosphy more closely to resolve her issues with a more flexible and tollerant attitude will indeed also bring up the stakes, wont be easy as you think my friend, never make the mistake of under estimating Turkey.

Also, I think you will find that most EU countries will jump at the opportunity to use Cyprus as an excuse to leave Turkey out, rather than push GCs.


Will this be ok for GCs?, I think not..you can kiss a solution goodbye forever.

Am I to assume that by "our ports" you are referring to the ports in the part of Cyprus currently illegally occupied by Turkish troops?? Should I understand that you are labouring under the illusion that just because Turkey invaded those areas and held them by force for 30 years they have somehow become "yours"??


Relax my friend Im referring to ports in the Northern Cyprus, the part where the TCs live.

My dear friend, wake up and smell the EU acquis and the European Arrest Warrant... they are coming your way fast..


Ok we will wait and wait and wait and wait ....if we wait long enoug other things may also come our way :wink:
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Postby Piratis » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:35 pm

cant see anything winning in there or keeping this current position for another few thousand years until our time comes!!!!

If you are talking about thousands of years and you can't see anything winning then you have to open some history books. A thousand years is enough for the balance of power to change 20 times.

If TCs want peace then they should accept a solution that will not create two separate and conflicting groups, but one group made by equal people (even if they have some different characteristics like religion, language etc). A "solution" without democracy and respect to human rights is not the solution but only part of the problem.

If the TCs want to keep two separate groups, especially in a way that their group is winning, on our expense, more than what an 18% minority deserves, then they should know for a fact that the balance of power will change and that there will be a day they would wish they had accepted what we are asking from them today.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:50 pm

Piratis wrote:
cant see anything winning in there or keeping this current position for another few thousand years until our time comes!!!!

If you are talking about thousands of years and you can't see anything winning then you have to open some history books. A thousand years is enough for the balance of power to change 20 times.

If TCs want peace then they should accept a solution that will not create two separate and conflicting groups, but one group made by equal people (even if they have some different characteristics like religion, language etc). A "solution" without democracy and respect to human rights is not the solution but only part of the problem.

If the TCs want to keep two separate groups, especially in a way that their group is winning, on our expense, more than what an 18% minority

deserves, then they should know for a fact that the balance of power will change and that there will be a day they would wish they had accepted what we are asking from them today.


Piratis arent you sick of making these hollow threats because we are sick and tired of reading them. You wait around another 100 years to get your swing in balance of power and blow all the TCs to kingdom come and live on this island with your GC brothers:lol:

But until that time arrives you have yo negotiate with realities of the situation before you.. no one wants to win anything its not a game we all want a peaceful quite life on this beautiful island ours wither together ot apart. At the moment we have no grounds to unite so we have to live divided until or fi we ever want or need to find a soltuion. In the meantime you can wait for your "swing" if you live long enough.
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Postby garbitsch » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:43 pm

Piratis, you might lose everything, while trying to get everything. Just to keep in mind.
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Postby bg_turk » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:58 am

Piratis wrote:If you are talking about thousands of years and you can't see anything winning then you have to open some history books. A thousand years is enough for the balance of power to change 20 times.


Many barbarians have come and gone through these greek lands; Turks were not the first and they will not be the last. But you greeks will persevere. What is 1000 years for a great civilization which has many thousands of years behind it after all.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:57 am

Piratis, you might lose everything, while trying to get everything. Just to keep in mind.

Thats what you should keep in mind. We are not trying to get anything more than what was agreed. You are the ones who are trying to get more and in the end you might get nothing.

What is 1000 years for a great civilization which has many thousands of years behind it after all.


1000 years?

How much time it took for this:

Image

to become this:

Image

Clue: Not a thousand years.
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Postby tubegallery » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:06 am

I didn't know history lessons where part of the deal on Cyprus-Forum.

Thanks for the update Piratis, and now we can all relax safely in the knowledge that the Cyprus problem will someday be solved. Your enlightment of what has gone before us will have a large bearing on the every day life and struggles of the Cypriot people.

Genius.

Come on people lets not get distracted by such rubbish. Concentrate on whats important and how we can make a difference to people's lives in the present and the short-term future. Too many people think like this, but to be honest they have to be ignored as they will always sit on the sidelines and whisper and snigger under their breath as real leaders and visionaires go about leaving a lasting improvement in peoples lives.

Such people may make up even up to 20% of the population on both sides and they will disagree to anything put forward to them, so to waste time trying to convince them otherwise is an investment in time and effort with no reward.
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Postby Nicko » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:37 am

Yes, lets leave it to our caring politicians, who care so much for us and not about how they can secure a wealthy future for their families!! We can trust the Turks 100% they love and care for us and if we let them rule our country 100% we will be so much better off................NOT!!!!!!
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