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turkish cypriots living in the south

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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:30 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:
I have always said I am open to be persuaded in favor of a BBF with political equality if it is based along the lines of the AP which you GCs continue to reject.


http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus31695.html#p742056

...kindly reply point by point; step by step, as you've said before,


a federal government must exist. OK
-a Turkish Cypriot constituent state must exist. OK
-a Greek Cypriot constituent state must exist. OK

thus the only conclusion i can make is that there is a need for Greeks to constitute a form of representation that completes this Agreement's very basis; a Greek Cypriot constituent state.

here are the rainbow lines i draw:

1. the federal government defines its Citizens as Individuals; by their residence. OK

2. the voting is democratic, all voters voting in the same way, all votes are given the same weight. OK

3. the legislature for the federal government is Bicameral, it is the Upper House that provides leadership, having seats equally divided among Turkish and Greek representatives where a majority of seats must be won by a leader who becomes President. and a Lower House which is elected by Population, as Independants representing sober second thinking, voting by consensus through a Speaker, they would also sit in Government Committees. (slight shades of the Annan plan)

What would happen in situaitons of deadlock eg 50 vs 50? or 1 GC voter was not available, ı think we need minimums from each state

4. as such, a voter will vote thricely (voting once), from three seperate slates, so that the best representatives are elected by and for the voter's riding, they will vote for their Turkish Cypriot Representative and their Greek Cypriot Representative, as well as their Independant. Representative. (shades of the guy or was it the guy before that)

Risk bells sound here, cross voting for a rep from the the other state could result in unwanted candidates being elected.

...do the math (for the Upper and Lower House), then assume larger populations and a different demographic, do the math again...

...then consider how over time a representative's experience and expertise can grow, and consider how this changing population is open to a representation in the future which will sustain Turkish and Greek identities by civic leaders of neither ethnicity.

5. the Turkish constituent state, and the Greek constituent state shall be equal, in that they each represent themselves as Persons in a National Assembly where their electorate is identified by their residence, and in that they obtian their Charter meeting the same criteria determined by the federal government which retains its Sovereignty while assigning territorial Jurisdiction.

Clarification necessary.

6. Bizonal shall define a geographic representation of our commitment to redressing the suffering of all displaced, with their return, for some as communities. thus the island as it is divided has to its political geography many pockets added everywhere, resulting in the obligation of the National Assemblies to provide their service to an electorate that is island-wide.

REJECTED a mish mash of residents and villages is a return to the 1960s didnt work wont work now.

7. settlers who apply for Citizenship, who are accepted, and who will be newly displaced (from the repopulation) shall be provided homes, or at their choosing compensation.

OK after a certain criteria has been applied to allow "settlers" who have lived on the island for over 30 years to remain.

other thoughts...

8. a protocol over the land issue shall be formed so that most disputes are settled by the afffected bodies themselves. the IPC's mandate may be extended to settle the compensation issues of all the displaced, however rulings from the Supreme Court of Cyprus must remain a final court of Judgement for all Property issues.

OK but how will the supreme court be formed?

9. each of the governing bodies will have the right to armed forces toward the enforcement of Law. however only the federal government has a right to an armed force which defends the State. for foreign troops to exist on the island, none are Sovereign in their Bases, recognising the will of the Cypriot People. as such demilitarised, their own armed force could gain great experience in union with willing lease holders toward a common goal which may serve the bigger fight against real enemies (such as disaster, or disease, hunger, or where there are refugees and displaced against their slaughter), or otherwise strictly not allowed.

OK but who will defend state against state conflicts?

...so, three governments (at least); two levels of government: that's Bicommunal.

...so, constituent states made of many components define a National Identity; they serve this majority first, recognising the special needs of others, Nationally an effort toward the State: this is Bizonal.

dear readers, thank-you for your consideration. and to the wordsmiths, please kindly offer your observations point by point to this document's benefits and pitfalls. whether you agree with its proposal as a solution to the Cyprus Problem or not, i'd like to know if at least it is easy to understand.

I have gone over your manifesto but find it very basic, it has to be filled in as to what the checks and balances are, the risks and how they should be addressed.

Do you have any support from your side, can you post a few GC comments because this is very close to the AP and if put to referendum would be rejected by the GCs.
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:56 pm

thank-you vp, and it will take time for me to digest your thoughts, so that my answers will be helpful.

@ all other members, kindly allow me to speak for myself, your help, of course will be appreciated if the effort, firstly is toward clarifying our understanding of each article's intent, and secondly their validaty, like any new thoughts, as balanced thnking.

...for the record vp, if you don't mind, i shall reply in the original topic.
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Kikapu » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:00 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:No repulse due to your style of writting we appear to get cross wires every now and then but on this issue your are adamantly refusing to answer or see why we only only love the North Cyprus and why I said LONG LIVE THE TRNC which annoyed you so much. Its because this is our best option when you take into account what GCs potray on this forum, which is a minority in our own country especially when you consider that the GCs will donminate manipulate and exploit TCs under what they label "true democracy" based on sand which can change in the wind to suit certain citizens to the detrement of others.

I have always said I am open to be persuaded in favor of a BBF with political equality if it is based along the lines of the AP which you GCs continue to reject.


I bet you do.

The AP of 2004 went against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International law, therefore, it cannot be acceptable to the EU because it does not conform with it's principles now that the RoC is a full member of the EU, or else, the EU would be the first to ask for it back. It's just the same way as to why Turkey today cannot become an EU member because Turkey cannot conform to the EU Principles.


So you are saying the UN EU USA UK Greece etc were supporting a plan that was "against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International law" do you know how stupid you sound...its the UN EU USA UK Greece plus the majority of the International Community VS Kikapoooo we all know who we believe and it aint you.


First of all there are enough corrupt individuals from the countries and institutions you have listed to gift Cyprus to Turkey with the AP. None of the countries and institutions you have listed passed any resolutions/bills on the AP, so stop with your constant mentioning of these countries and institutions as if it were the voices of more than few corrupted individuals from those countries and institutions that had supported the AP, and the proof is in the pudding, because none of those countries and institutions are asking for the return of the AP now. What more proof do you need that if was not the countries and institutions that were supporting the AP but few corrupt individuals, and since these corrupt individuals are no longer in position in voicing their support for the AP just to screw the Cypriots and help Turkey, are the reasons as to why there is ZERO support for the return of the AP. Surely, even you should be able to see the obvious. The fact that you feel cheated out keeping "your" stolen GCs properties legally in the north had the AP passed is besides the point and shouldn't cloud your clear thinking, but then again, that's exactly what has happened to you. My guess is you have turned blind and stupid at the same time by making the same false claims about what other countries and institutions had supposedly said in their so called support of the AP.

But the biggest proof of them all that the AP was against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International Law, is that you had said YES to the AP when you are against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International Law, because you support an Apartheid system, therefore, the AP could not have been based on Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International Law. CASE CLOSED!
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:15 pm

Repulse your manifesto does not address or does vary vaguely major issues, like properties, rights to free settlement, movement and enterprise in other words basic human rights plus many other important things.
What striked me the most is your point #3 that will basically lead to one side trying to buy 1 voter from the other side, that would eventually lead to either a corrupt system or no president.

Of course my intention is not to criticize you, your effort is appreciated. But i think that on such an important issue it would be nice if the major contributors of this forum presented their own solution proposals. I am thinking of preparing such a proposal, but then again what's the point i have expressed my positions hundreds of times in this sub-forum...
Last edited by Pyrpolizer on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:39 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:No repulse due to your style of writting we appear to get cross wires every now and then but on this issue your are adamantly refusing to answer or see why we only only love the North Cyprus and why I said LONG LIVE THE TRNC which annoyed you so much. Its because this is our best option when you take into account what GCs potray on this forum, which is a minority in our own country especially when you consider that the GCs will donminate manipulate and exploit TCs under what they label "true democracy" based on sand which can change in the wind to suit certain citizens to the detrement of others.

I have always said I am open to be persuaded in favor of a BBF with political equality if it is based along the lines of the AP which you GCs continue to reject.


I bet you do.

The AP of 2004 went against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International law, therefore, it cannot be acceptable to the EU because it does not conform with it's principles now that the RoC is a full member of the EU, or else, the EU would be the first to ask for it back. It's just the same way as to why Turkey today cannot become an EU member because Turkey cannot conform to the EU Principles.


So you are saying the UN EU USA UK Greece etc were supporting a plan that was "against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International law" do you know how stupid you sound...its the UN EU USA UK Greece plus the majority of the International Community VS Kikapoooo we all know who we believe and it aint you.


First of all there are enough corrupt individuals from the countries and institutions you have listed to gift Cyprus to Turkey with the AP. None of the countries and institutions you have listed passed any resolutions/bills on the AP, so stop with your constant mentioning of these countries and institutions as if it were the voices of more than few corrupted individuals from those countries and institutions that had supported the AP, and the proof is in the pudding, because none of those countries and institutions are asking for the return of the AP now. What more proof do you need that if was not the countries and institutions that were supporting the AP but few corrupt individuals, and since these corrupt individuals are no longer in position in voicing their support for the AP just to screw the Cypriots and help Turkey, are the reasons as to why there is ZERO support for the return of the AP. Surely, even you should be able to see the obvious. The fact that you feel cheated out keeping "your" stolen GCs properties legally in the north had the AP passed is besides the point and shouldn't cloud your clear thinking, but then again, that's exactly what has happened to you. My guess is you have turned blind and stupid at the same time by making the same false claims about what other countries and institutions had supposedly said in their so called support of the AP.

But the biggest proof of them all that the AP was against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International Law, is that you had said YES to the AP when you are against Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International Law, because you support an Apartheid system, therefore, the AP could not have been based on Federation, Democracy, Human Rights and International Law. CASE CLOSED!


Knocking on a deaf mans door Kikapu. After a few days VP will repeat the same things all over again.

Even if the Gcs have voted yes, the Anan Plan should of thereafter pass through the parliaments of ALL member states so that it would become primary EU aquis. It was very clear in the Anan Plan that the co -Presidents should send that letter to the commission.
The REAL test would actually occur AT THAT POINT. The problem is a)The Anan Plan would fail the test FULLY, not even one country would have accepted it as primary law b)The RoC would have already gone c) The new state of affairs would be outside the EU immediately, and d) the occupied would become of equal legal status as the free areas.

That was the whole plan behind the Anan Plan.The word "scum" is too little to describe those who put the UN stamp and name on it.
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:01 pm

You people are a joke, you are saying that the UN EU USA UK Greece etc etc are all corrupt, contrived and supported the AP just to use it against the GCs trying to get one over by helping Turkey. Man you are paranoiacs so don't expect people to stupidly follow your lead.

Your explanations are pathetic and a barrage of useless excuses.
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby boomerang » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:43 pm

Viewpoint wrote:You people are a joke, you are saying that the UN EU USA UK Greece etc etc are all corrupt, contrived and supported the AP just to use it against the GCs trying to get one over by helping Turkey. Man you are paranoiacs so don't expect people to stupidly follow your lead.

Your explanations are pathetic and a barrage of useless excuses.


yes, yes this group is not corrupt..everyone got it wrong...

tell me what is the difference in what's happening in mali and syria today?...both bountries not run by islamic monkeys...the corrupt group wants to screw a country by supporting terrorists and on the other the same group is fighting the terrorists to save a country...common denominator, same shitty group...

yes this group is highly commendable... :lol:
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:12 am

Forgive us for thinking that the UN EU USA UK Greece etc etc were right and you were wrong :lol:
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Kikapu » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:22 am

Viewpoint wrote:You people are a joke, you are saying that the UN EU USA UK Greece etc etc are all corrupt, contrived and supported the AP just to use it against the GCs trying to get one over by helping Turkey. Man you are paranoiacs so don't expect people to stupidly follow your lead.

Your explanations are pathetic and a barrage of useless excuses.


You are caught with your pants down again with your lies. Come to think of it, your pants never gets the chance to go up! :lol:

Why don't you answer the question as to why these countries and institutions you claim to have supported the AP in 2004 are not asking for the return of the AP now, now that the RoC is a full member of the EU?

Is it because the AP of 2004 is not compatible with the EU Principles? :roll:
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Re: turkish cypriots living in the south

Postby Kikapu » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:33 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Knocking on a deaf mans door Kikapu. After a few days VP will repeat the same things all over again.

Even if the Gcs have voted yes, the Anan Plan should of thereafter pass through the parliaments of ALL member states so that it would become primary EU aquis. It was very clear in the Anan Plan that the co -Presidents should send that letter to the commission.
The REAL test would actually occur AT THAT POINT. The problem is a)The Anan Plan would fail the test FULLY, not even one country would have accepted it as primary law b)The RoC would have already gone c) The new state of affairs would be outside the EU immediately, and d) the occupied would become of equal legal status as the free areas.

That was the whole plan behind the Anan Plan.The word "scum" is too little to describe those who put the UN stamp and name on it.


I know my friend and so does VP, but as long as VP doesn't mind getting "bitch slapped" by me all the time, I don't mind doing it. :D

As for the rest of your post, you are spot on. :evil:
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