Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

Your reaction demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about.

The contiguous territory between Greece and Cyprus is why Britain and Turkey fight so hard to keep us apart.

Not according to Unclos: there is no contiguous territory - territory stops at 12 nm.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Your reaction demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about.

The contiguous territory between Greece and Cyprus is why Britain and Turkey fight so hard to keep us apart.

Not according to Unclos: there is no contiguous territory - territory stops at 12 nm.

Exactly - how many time must I tell you that's why Britain and Turkey fought so hard to isolate Cyprus from Greece!

[supporttheunderdog]

and there would still not be contiguous territory - this is a matter of International law as enshrined in a treaty,

[Oceanside50]

Contiguous zone
Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.[4] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.


Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)
These extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles (370 kilometres; 230 miles) from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes


and cables.


here's a nice article that describes both contiguous zone and the exclusive economic zone:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... niel-pipes

"...Were Athens to claim its full EEZ, Kastelorizo’s presence would make its EEZ contiguous with the EEZ of Cyprus, a factor with great import now, at a moment of massive off-shore gas and oil discoveries. Kastelorizo with an EEZ benefits the emerging Greece-Cyprus-Israel alliance by making it possible to transport either Cypriot and Israeli natural gas (via pipeline) or electricity (via cable) to Western Europe without Turkish permission. ..."

Under the rules of the EEZ Greece and Cyprus do have a common border and could sign an agreement to explore their offshore hydrocarbons. Its been noted before in the forum that during the invasion of Cyprus in 1974, the Turks offered to withdraw their troops to a corridor linking Kyrenia and Nicosia if Greece turns over the island of Kastelorizo, the Greeks rightly refused the offer and called on all Turkish troops to withdraw from Cyprus. And in fact the issue of Kastelorizo and the EEZ of Greece, Cyprus and Turkey was an issue among them even before the invasion of Cyprus in 74.
Delimitation of the continental shelf – the stretch of sea- bed beyond the territorial sea of a coastal state and what lies under it36 – became a prospective bone of contention between Turkey and Greece in 1973, as both focused on potential oil resources in the
Aegean with the onset of the first oil crisis. This coincided with rising tensions over Cyprus in 1974.

Therefore one could rightly conclude that with the invasion of Cyprus and continued occupation of one third of the island, that Turkey and Britain expected the Greeks and Greek Cypriots to acquiesce to an agreement giving the Turks Kastelorizo and Britain access to Cyprus' oil reserves, in exchange for the partial withdraw of Turkish troops from Cyprus.

[supporttheunderdog]

but it is a lie to say Britain was privy to the invasion and I do not think the conclusion is correct. The best reserch seems to show that Britain was considering abandon the SBA in 1974 (which the USA did not want to happen) and they not aware of the American - Greek plans for the coup, indeed the very big concern of America was not a Greek Turkish war but an Britain-Turkey conflict.

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/europeanInstitute/research/hellenicObservatory/pdf/3rd_Symposium/PAPERS/CONSTANDINOS_ANDREAS.pdf

Callaghan had already raised the possibility of a naval blockade and there is considerable evidence to support the assertion that Whitehall did propose such a venture along the northern coast of Cyprus in order to prevent a Turkish invasion......The only available option was to act in concert with the United States, which was the only power capable of preventing an invasion. According to McNally, Callaghan genuinely wanted to prevent a Turkish invasion and suggested a joint military operation. Smiling, McNally revealed that the realities of 1974 meant that a joint military operation meant sending the US Sixth Fleet along with one British ship (probably HMS Hermes) to the northern coastof Cyprus. McNally called this “responsibility without power”. Kissinger, who was obsessive about the importance of the south-eastern flank of NATO and the importance of Turkey to American interests, rejected the proposal.

It was alldown to the Americans, not over oil but over cold war matters where the Americans were anti Makarios.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Contiguous zone
Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.[4] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.


Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)
These extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles (370 kilometres; 230 miles) from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes


and cables.


here's a nice article that describes both contiguous zone and the exclusive economic zone:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... niel-pipes

"...Were Athens to claim its full EEZ, Kastelorizo’s presence would make its EEZ contiguous with the EEZ of Cyprus, a factor with great import now, at a moment of massive off-shore gas and oil discoveries. Kastelorizo with an EEZ benefits the emerging Greece-Cyprus-Israel alliance by making it possible to transport either Cypriot and Israeli natural gas (via pipeline) or electricity (via cable) to Western Europe without Turkish permission. ..."

Under the rules of the EEZ Greece and Cyprus do have a common border and could sign an agreement to explore their offshore hydrocarbons. Its been noted before in the forum that during the invasion of Cyprus in 1974, the Turks offered to withdraw their troops to a corridor linking Kyrenia and Nicosia if Greece turns over the island of Kastelorizo, the Greeks rightly refused the offer and called on all Turkish troops to withdraw from Cyprus. And in fact the issue of Kastelorizo and the EEZ of Greece, Cyprus and Turkey was an issue among them even before the invasion of Cyprus in 74.
Delimitation of the continental shelf – the stretch of sea- bed beyond the territorial sea of a coastal state and what lies under it36 – became a prospective bone of contention between Turkey and Greece in 1973, as both focused on potential oil resources in the
Aegean with the onset of the first oil crisis. This coincided with rising tensions over Cyprus in 1974.

Therefore one could rightly conclude that with the invasion of Cyprus and continued occupation of one third of the island, that Turkey and Britain expected the Greeks and Greek Cypriots to acquiesce to an agreement giving the Turks Kastelorizo and Britain access to Cyprus' oil reserves, in exchange for the partial withdraw of Turkish troops from Cyprus.

Excellent, oceanside.

Furthermore, my point is that there would also be contiguous EEZ between Crete and Cyprus as the distance, shore to shore, is less than 400 miles between the two (200 miles EEZ each) (little more at island midpoints).

http://www.distancefromto.net/between/Cyprus/Crete

Whatever excuses they (Imperialists) come up with, the reason for isolating Cyprus was to diminish the collective sum of wealth between Greece and Cyprus. Now we are forced to defend these areas, at great expense, and fight for our rights, again, when this section of the Mediterranean was always territory of the Hellenic people.

[supporttheunderdog]

I pointed out that there was a maritime EEZ border - no more - no less - as usual its importance is over emphasised - . Delusions of a megalist future!

[bill cobbett]

Let's not let the thread be de-railed by the half-baked rubbish from the Spartans please.

The question is a very simple one ...

... will Greece have the pollocks to.. Extend its Territorial Waters to 12 miles from the present 6; and will it also declare an UNCLOS max EEZ in the Aegean as it has done in the Ionian and in the waters to the south of Crete...???

It can make the UNCLOS max claims in the Aegean without any neighbour's agreement by sending a few map co-ordinates in a letter to the UN Sec General.

Greece almost certainly has been sitting on these co-ordinates for years, will it now put a stamp on the letter and post it...???

[Oceanside50]

Yes Bill, Greece will extend its territorial waters to 12 miles in the Aegean and yes it will declare an EEZ off Kastelorizo, for two reasons:

1) Energy nowadays is much more important to the European Union and the world then Turkish interests. The next economic boom will be fueled from cheap/abundant domestic energy, Greece and Cyprus' huge hydrocarbon deposits will turn the Eu's current economic recession into an economic boom.

http://www.globalization101.org/oil-and ... omic-boom/

Greece will have full support from the Eu and the United Nations. If Turkey is foolish enough to declare war against a fellow Nato member then they automatically violate a Nato charter, that states,one Nato country cannot attack or claim another Nato members territory, which possibly could disqualify Turkey's membership and in turn make Nato an enemy.

2) The Europeans/USA want the Turks to evolve into a European country but they first have to settle the Kurdish issue and make deep compromises in Cyprus. Greece declaring its EEZ and 12 mile territorial, could be used as a lever for these compromises.

[bill cobbett]

Yes Bill, Greece will extend its territorial waters to 12 miles in the Aegean and yes it will declare an EEZ off Kastelorizo, for two reasons:

1) Energy nowadays is much more important to the European Union and the world then Turkish interests. The next economic boom will be fueled from cheap/abundant domestic energy, Greece and Cyprus' huge hydrocarbon deposits will turn the Eu's current economic recession into an economic boom.

http://www.globalization101.org/oil-and ... omic-boom/

Greece will have full support from the Eu and the United Nations. If Turkey is foolish enough to declare war against a fellow Nato member then they automatically violate a Nato charter, that states,one Nato country cannot attack or claim another Nato members territory, which possibly could disqualify Turkey's membership and in turn make Nato an enemy.

2) The Europeans/USA want the Turks to evolve into a European country but they first have to settle the Kurdish issue and make deep compromises in Cyprus. Greece declaring its EEZ and 12 mile territorial, could be used as a lever for these compromises.

Hope you are right in all the above Ocean... but am fearful, very fearful, that Greece will capitulate to the demands of a certain neighbour, a neighbourhood bully with a very well-known known reputation for land-grabbing, to negotiate the matter in very substantive ways, to claim far less than Greece is entitled to for the sake of an easy life, to share the resources under the Aegean when Greece does not have to and in particular even to give up any claim to the contribution of Kastelorizo to the Greece EEZ, which would mean no border with the CY EEZ... and any such capitulation would set a massive precedent for the CY EEZ.

... and will remain fearful 'til such time as Greece puts those nice little co-ordinates in the post to the UN.