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A humble proposal

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:53 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:We live in a country whose two main populations ...


There is only ONE main population in Cyprus.


Yeah, Cypriots, and they have two different heritages.

Nowadays noone can distinguish between the Saxons and Normans who once made up the country of England. They are just called English.



Nonsense - although such comparisons are limited as each case is unique. Besides, Cyprus' history has been catalogued for so much longer it's an insult to use the UK/GB as a role model.

Individuals have many heritages but the Cypriot nation has one characteristic. Greek.

Not everyone who lives in England is English or even of Anglo Saxon descent. "Cypriot" is a (political) nationality like "British". The majority Cypriots, natives, are Greek. Maybe from the Mycenaean wave or the Alexandrian wave or any of the many interactions in-between but we are principally Greek. Speaking Greek for thousands of years. Have the English spoken English for more than some centuries?



First of all, to be born Greek, Turkish, English or Swahili is not a priviledge, it's a genetic accident. You neither choose nor earn your nationality and ethnicity, so to be proud of it is something I don't understand. Socrates and Plato and Aristoteles were great people who achieved great things and contributed to humanity, what have you achieved in your life other than 'being proud to be Greek'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xNPA#t=72s

The Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Hittites had flourishing civilizations which either predated or prospered alongside the Greek one. They inhabited Cyprus and influenced its culture as well. Infact, even when the Mycaenean Greeks started coming and settling in Cyprus it was considered a part of the Hittite empire. These populations in Cyprus were ultimately assimilated through many hundreds of years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3w#t=1033s ('Αντρος Παυλίδης ο μέγας. Βρε τα ντοκιμαντερ του να μάθεις ιστορία της Κύπρου.)

Additionally, being Eastern Roman wasn't a specific priviledge to the Greeks, but many other people like the Trojans, the Lydians, and the Gauls of Asia Minor were eventually assimilated and designated as Eastern Romans... ( and eventually shipped off to Greece during the 19th - 20th century population exchanges just because they were (Rum) Greek speaking Christians).

Last but not least, I would like to state that the main reason why the Roman and Greek cultures were showcased during the Renaissance was because the Western Europeans wanted home-grown European civilizations to follow. The Persian culture has proven to be as important, as contributing and as resilient as the Greek, but they just happen to be based in Asia not Europe.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:52 am

DrCyprus wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:We live in a country whose two main populations ...


There is only ONE main population in Cyprus.


Yeah, Cypriots, and they have two different heritages.

Nowadays noone can distinguish between the Saxons and Normans who once made up the country of England. They are just called English.



Nonsense - although such comparisons are limited as each case is unique. Besides, Cyprus' history has been catalogued for so much longer it's an insult to use the UK/GB as a role model.

Individuals have many heritages but the Cypriot nation has one characteristic. Greek.

Not everyone who lives in England is English or even of Anglo Saxon descent. "Cypriot" is a (political) nationality like "British". The majority Cypriots, natives, are Greek. Maybe from the Mycenaean wave or the Alexandrian wave or any of the many interactions in-between but we are principally Greek. Speaking Greek for thousands of years. Have the English spoken English for more than some centuries?



First of all, to be born Greek, Turkish, English or Swahili is not a priviledge, it's a genetic accident. You neither choose nor earn your nationality and ethnicity, so to be proud of it is something I don't understand. Socrates and Plato and Aristoteles were great people who achieved great things and contributed to humanity, what have you achieved in your life other than 'being proud to be Greek'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xNPA#t=72s

The Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Hittites had flourishing civilizations which either predated or prospered alongside the Greek one. They inhabited Cyprus and influenced its culture as well. Infact, even when the Mycaenean Greeks started coming and settling in Cyprus it was considered a part of the Hittite empire. These populations in Cyprus were ultimately assimilated through many hundreds of years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3w#t=1033s ('Αντρος Παυλίδης ο μέγας. Βρε τα ντοκιμαντερ του να μάθεις ιστορία της Κύπρου.)

Additionally, being Eastern Roman wasn't a specific priviledge to the Greeks, but many other people like the Trojans, the Lydians, and the Gauls of Asia Minor were eventually assimilated and designated as Eastern Romans... ( and eventually shipped off to Greece during the 19th - 20th century population exchanges just because they were (Rum) Greek speaking Christians).

Last but not least, I would like to state that the main reason why the Roman and Greek cultures were showcased during the Renaissance was because the Western Europeans wanted home-grown European civilizations to follow. The Persian culture has proven to be as important, as contributing and as resilient as the Greek, but they just happen to be based in Asia not Europe.


What are you talking about? Who brought in pride, genetics or philosophy into the debate? I was talking about the political constructs. I guess you have no reply but want to show-off some googlemania.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:55 am

Get Real! wrote:It doesn’t say anywhere in the constitution that Cyprus is Greek or Turkish! :)


That was pivotal to sowing self-destruction.

- Denying 82% of the populace their cultural identity.

(Is there anything else you find so wonderful in that constitution?)
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby Sotos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:33 am

Get Real! wrote:
Sotos wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Individuals have many heritages but the Cypriot nation has one characteristic. Greek.

In your head it can be whatever you imagine it to be… Pakistani even, but officially it’s Cypriot.


Even officially the majority of Cypriots are Greek. Read the constitution. :!:

It doesn’t say anywhere in the constitution that Cyprus is Greek or Turkish! :)

Like I said, that only exists in your polluted Greece-fashioned or Turkey-fashioned heads. :lol:

There’s no such thing as a “Greek Cypriot Passport” or a “Turkish Cypriot Passport”.

They both acquire a Cypriot passport and a Cypriot ID card because they are Cypriots of Cyprus and for Cyprus.

Cyprus is a UN member sovereign nation, and a EU member COUNTRY candidate,

So… GET OVER IT!

And just because your generation had their minds trashed doesn’t mean that your kids and grandkids have to suffer too! :roll:


It says that the majority of Cypriots are Greek very clearly. Some quotes from the constitution:

the Greek Community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Greek origin and whose mother tongue is Greek or who share the Greek cultural traditions or who are members of the Greek­Orthodox Church;


The State of Cyprus is an independent and sovereign Republic with a presidential regime, the President being Greek and the Vice­President being Turk elected by the Greek and the Turkish Communities of Cyprus respectively as hereinafter in this Constitution provided.


http://www.kypros.org/Constitution/Engl ... art_i.html

So officially and in every other way we are Greek ... unless you belong to one of the minorities who aren't.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby Sotos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:49 am

Get Real! wrote:
Sotos wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Jerry wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:If you can seperate two populations who have lived together since 1571, then you can bring together two populations who have lived seperated since 1963.

Only if Turkey does what Greece has done and gives up its claim to Cyprus.

If Turkey was to do what Greece does, Cyprus' ministry of education would be run by Ankara and we’d waving little red flags on Turkish holidays!


Only problem for the Turks is that we are Greek and we would never wave their flag ;) ... and by "we" I mean us the real Cypriots ... not the foreign born and raised Cypriot wannabes :P

Give me your child until he is 12 and I'll make an obedient little Ataturk out of him, just as I can make an obedient little Mao out of him! :roll:



The same goes FOR YOU and everybody else. I was born and raised in Cyprus by my parents who are Greek and they in turn were raised by their parents who were Greek and so on and so forth. So I am Greek because I was raised by my parents who were Greek and I will raise my children as Greek also... how could I raise my Children to be Turks or Chinese if I am Greek ... I couldn't do it even if I wanted to ... unless I moved to Turkey or China and I let those foreigners to raise my children... which is what happened to YOU. You were raised in a foreign country by foreigners so you became a foreigner :x

You are what you were FASHIONED to be and unless you evolved into an intelligent adult WHO CAN THINK AND REASON for himself, you will CONTINUE to be what others have fashioned you to be!


oh ... so to have an ethnicity you have to wait until you become an adult and then decide "I am a Chinese... no no wait... after thinking about it a bit better I am Spanish" :lol: Dude WAKE UP. Ethnicity is something that is given from parents to their children from generation to generation ... it is not something that you choose after you think about it!
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:59 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Who brought in pride genetics or philosophy into the debate


GreekIslandGirl did.

Pride
Cyprus' history has been catalogued for so much longer it's an insult to use the UK/GB as a role model.


Genetics
The majority Cypriots, natives, are Greek. Maybe from the Mycenaean wave or the Alexandrian wave or any of the many interactions in-between but we are principally Greek. Speaking Greek for thousands of years. Have the English spoken English for more than some centuries?


Pride, genetics and philosophy
If you want to call the ancient Greeks that colonised Cyprus, Asia Minor, Greece, Italy up to France the term "settlers" - that's fine. The reality is they humanised mostly barren lands and set up civilisations for the first time. Bringing arts, culture, sciences, mathematics, engineering, democracy etc etc etc. More accurately they were very early, 'primitive' pioneers. As such, they "settled" the lands, making them more habitable, before anyone else. The Turks are trying to undo what the Greeks have done or take over ready-made civilisations, with nothing to offer. Can you not see the difference?
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby Sotos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:01 pm

The Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Hittites had flourishing civilizations which either predated or prospered alongside the Greek one. They inhabited Cyprus and influenced its culture as well.


You are confused ;) The Phoenicians inhabited Cyprus... but all the others you mention above were just foreign empires who subjected Cyprus to their rule... they didn't inhabit Cyprus in any significant numbers. They would just send their armies whenever it was needed to force their rule and some tax collectors and maybe a few people for administration. They were like the British during British rule... and their presence was even less, all they cared for was to collect taxes.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby Jerry » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:02 pm

Sotos wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Jerry wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:If you can seperate two populations who have lived together since 1571, then you can bring together two populations who have lived seperated since 1963.

Only if Turkey does what Greece has done and gives up its claim to Cyprus.

If Turkey was to do what Greece does, Cyprus' ministry of education would be run by Ankara and we’d waving little red flags on Turkish holidays!


Only problem for the Turks is that we are Greek and we would never wave their flag ;) ... and by "we" I mean us the real Cypriots ... not the foreign born and raised Cypriot wannabes :P



And where would Cyprus be today were it not for the millions of £££s that the successful foreign born Cypriot wannabes have poured back onto the island - deeper shit than it is now in.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:10 pm

Sotos wrote:
The Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Hittites had flourishing civilizations which either predated or prospered alongside the Greek one. They inhabited Cyprus and influenced its culture as well.


You are confused ;) The Phoenicians inhabited Cyprus... but all the others you mention above were just foreign empires who subjected Cyprus to their rule... they didn't inhabit Cyprus in any significant numbers. They would just send their armies whenever it was needed to force their rule and some tax collectors and maybe a few people for administration. They were like the British during British rule... and their presence was even less, all they cared for was to collect taxes.


Just like we have British living with their families in Cyprus by choice today, we used to have Persian, Egyptian e.t.c families who chose to live in Cyprus as well. By and large, they were eventually largely assimilated by the dominant culture of Cyprus at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3w#t=1033s I bookmarked it for you. Check it out!
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby Sotos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:19 pm

Jerry wrote:
Sotos wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Jerry wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:If you can seperate two populations who have lived together since 1571, then you can bring together two populations who have lived seperated since 1963.

Only if Turkey does what Greece has done and gives up its claim to Cyprus.

If Turkey was to do what Greece does, Cyprus' ministry of education would be run by Ankara and we’d waving little red flags on Turkish holidays!


Only problem for the Turks is that we are Greek and we would never wave their flag ;) ... and by "we" I mean us the real Cypriots ... not the foreign born and raised Cypriot wannabes :P



And where would Cyprus be today were it not for the millions of £££s that the successful foreign born Cypriot wannabes have poured back onto the island - deeper shit than it is now in.


If you want to see what diaspora can do then visit Israel ;) I didn't mean to offend you... some Cypriot immigrants try hard to raise their children as real Cypriots... but this is not easy. I have relatives like that also ... and lets face it, they are more British than Cypriot.... and I don't mean this as an offense ... just stating the obvious!
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