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A humble proposal

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Re: A humble proposal

Postby Sotos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:29 pm

DrCyprus wrote:
Sotos wrote:
The Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Hittites had flourishing civilizations which either predated or prospered alongside the Greek one. They inhabited Cyprus and influenced its culture as well.


You are confused ;) The Phoenicians inhabited Cyprus... but all the others you mention above were just foreign empires who subjected Cyprus to their rule... they didn't inhabit Cyprus in any significant numbers. They would just send their armies whenever it was needed to force their rule and some tax collectors and maybe a few people for administration. They were like the British during British rule... and their presence was even less, all they cared for was to collect taxes.


Just like we have British living with their families in Cyprus by choice today, we used to have Persian, Egyptian e.t.c families who chose to live in Cyprus as well. By and large, they were eventually largely assimilated by the dominant culture of Cyprus at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3w#t=1033s I bookmarked it for you. Check it out!


Most of these British ... usually pensioners... not families, came recently. Not during British rule ;) I didn't say that immigrants never came to Cyprus ... some immigrants came before like they are coming now and like they are going everywhere. So what? Are the French not French because foreigners immigrate to France? Are the English not English because foreigners immigrate to Britain?
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:41 pm

DrCyprus wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Who brought in pride genetics or philosophy into the debate


GreekIslandGirl did.

Pride
Cyprus' history has been catalogued for so much longer it's an insult to use the UK/GB as a role model.


No I didn't. That was an "insult" to factual reasoning; and history. Such as was your assumption to jump to national "pride".

Genetics
The majority Cypriots, natives, are Greek. Maybe from the Mycenaean wave or the Alexandrian wave or any of the many interactions in-between but we are principally Greek. Speaking Greek for thousands of years. Have the English spoken English for more than some centuries?


What I said was not about genetics (do you know what citing something "genetically" actually means?) but about migrations of tribes!

So why didn't you answer the question about language?

And philosophy? Why did you bring in Plato and Socrates?

Those are rhetorical btw - I assume you brought them in because they deflected from sticking to the points.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:01 pm

Sotos wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:
Sotos wrote:
The Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Hittites had flourishing civilizations which either predated or prospered alongside the Greek one. They inhabited Cyprus and influenced its culture as well.


You are confused ;) The Phoenicians inhabited Cyprus... but all the others you mention above were just foreign empires who subjected Cyprus to their rule... they didn't inhabit Cyprus in any significant numbers. They would just send their armies whenever it was needed to force their rule and some tax collectors and maybe a few people for administration. They were like the British during British rule... and their presence was even less, all they cared for was to collect taxes.


Just like we have British living with their families in Cyprus by choice today, we used to have Persian, Egyptian e.t.c families who chose to live in Cyprus as well. By and large, they were eventually largely assimilated by the dominant culture of Cyprus at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3w#t=1033s I bookmarked it for you. Check it out!


Most of these British ... usually pensioners... not families, came recently. Not during British rule ;) I didn't say that immigrants never came to Cyprus ... some immigrants came before like they are coming now and like they are going everywhere. So what? Are the French not French because foreigners immigrate to France? Are the English not English because foreigners immigrate to Britain?


I never said that. It's just that Greekislandgirl's notion that 'we are pure thoroughbred descendants of Greek settlers and sole champions of human civilization against the Turkish scourge who seek to undo our work' sounds both absurd and racist to me.

I can't blame her though. That's what we were all taught at school, and by the books of religious charlatans and cuckoos like Paisios.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:11 pm

So why didn't you answer the question about language?


I must have missed it. Could you repeat it please?

And philosophy? Why did you bring in Plato and Socrates?


I brought them up as examples of people who achieved something in their life other than accidentally being born Greek. It was part of my argument against national pride.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:04 pm

DrCyprus wrote:
So why didn't you answer the question about language?


I must have missed it. Could you repeat it please?

The question, in its context, is above as part of my original post.
And philosophy? Why did you bring in Plato and Socrates?


DrCyprus wrote:I brought them up as examples of people who achieved something in their life other than accidentally being born Greek. It was part of my argument against national pride.


Why do you have a problem with what people were "accidentally" born as? Should they give it up because it's tainted as "Greek"?

Did Socrates not distinguish himself in bravery and valour by fighting in at least 3 military campaigns? Was he wrong to protect his esteemed patch? Would you have chided him for fighting to preserve his corner? Or will you jump to label him with "national pride" that must be countered?

- And thank you for proudly offering me a lesson in hubris - I am well acquainted with this wrath of the Greek gods and know the boundaries. As well as Socrates' preference for questioning rather than force-feeding information. :wink:
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby Get Real! » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:24 pm

Some of you come across no different to soccer fanatics! It’s like you were born in a football team but haven’t matured enough yet to get out of it!

The good news is that you don’t have to be part of any man-made team!

Just like religions, ethnicities are man-made baloney to control populations but you don’t have to be part of it… you can be free of all that if you choose to.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:10 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:
So why didn't you answer the question about language?


I must have missed it. Could you repeat it please?

The question, in its context, is above as part of my original post.
And philosophy? Why did you bring in Plato and Socrates?


DrCyprus wrote:I brought them up as examples of people who achieved something in their life other than accidentally being born Greek. It was part of my argument against national pride.


Why do you have a problem with what people were "accidentally" born as? Should they give it up because it's tainted as "Greek"?

Did Socrates not distinguish himself in bravery and valour by fighting in at least 3 military campaigns? Was he wrong to protect his esteemed patch? Would you have chided him for fighting to preserve his corner? Or will you jump to label him with "national pride" that must be countered?

- And thank you for proudly offering me a lesson in hubris - I am well acquainted with this wrath of the Greek gods and know the boundaries. As well as Socrates' preference for questioning rather than force-feeding information. :wink:


Stop the hate.

All I'm saying is that one should never allow themselves to be defined by their birth place, religion, skin colour or other accidental traits. Throughout my childhood I had to listen to people telling me that I should be proud of myself because I'm the descendant of Odysseus and Alexander and that my ancestors brought civilization to the western world, and I eventually started questioning that line of argument.

Why should a random Giannis allow themselves to feel satiated and satisfied and proud about the fact that our ancient forefathers achieved something magnificent, when his greatest achievement in life was to buy a better car than his neighbour. It's better to work hard as an individual, and accomplish something yourself, and contribute to humanity yourself, and then maybe you can feel proud about yourself, and your ancestors will feel proud about you too.
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:22 pm

DrCyprus wrote:Why should a random Giannis allow themselves to feel satiated and satisfied and proud about the fact that our ancient forefathers achieved something magnificent, when his greatest achievement in life was to buy a better car than his neighbour.


Stop the hate.

Let others be ...
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:35 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
DrCyprus wrote:Why should a random Giannis allow themselves to feel satiated and satisfied and proud about the fact that our ancient forefathers achieved something magnificent, when his greatest achievement in life was to buy a better car than his neighbour.


Stop the hate.

Let others be ...


Stop the hate.

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xNPA#t=72s
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Re: A humble proposal

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:58 pm

I don't wish to be re-directed to a youtube. You have a deep-seated hate of those who are comfortable in their own skins. Let them be, in their humble desires. You, on the other hand, are clearly not humble. :wink:
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