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Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:09 am

Sotos wrote:
The TCs wanted partition since the 1950s. What happened is what they WANTED to happen all along... and it is what they continue to want. Otherwise the solution would be easy. We get our properties back in the north and they get theirs back in the south. THEY don't accept this.


Does every single Turkish Cypriot think exactly the same thing?
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby B25 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:18 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Sotos wrote:
The TCs wanted partition since the 1950s. What happened is what they WANTED to happen all along... and it is what they continue to want. Otherwise the solution would be easy. We get our properties back in the north and they get theirs back in the south. THEY don't accept this.


Does every single Turkish Cypriot think exactly the same thing?


Well, who knows, given VP claims to speak for the average TC and we all know his desire to see partition, one can conclude that yes, this is indeed the case.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Jerry » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:20 am

erolz66 wrote:
Sotos wrote:The TCs wanted partition since the 1950s. What happened is what they WANTED to happen all along... and it is what they continue to want. Otherwise the solution would be easy. We get our properties back in the north and they get theirs back in the south. THEY don't accept this.


For most ordinary TC they did not want partition. They wanted to not have ENOSIS forced upon them against their will and with no effective say in this monumental decision that would fundamentally affect their lives in their own shared homeland. Without ENOSIS the solution would have been easy. ENOSIS and the way it was pursued is what drove more and more ordinary TC to desire partition.


It cuts both ways, the ordinary TC may not have wanted partition but their leaders, in particular Denktash and Turkey, certainly did. The ordinary GC did not want Taksim forced upon them, they wanted the security of Enosis to secure the island from a return of Turkish dominance. Third party States and local fanatics decided the fate of Cypriots not the ordinary citizen.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby B25 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:26 am

Jerry wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Sotos wrote:The TCs wanted partition since the 1950s. What happened is what they WANTED to happen all along... and it is what they continue to want. Otherwise the solution would be easy. We get our properties back in the north and they get theirs back in the south. THEY don't accept this.


For most ordinary TC they did not want partition. They wanted to not have ENOSIS forced upon them against their will and with no effective say in this monumental decision that would fundamentally affect their lives in their own shared homeland. Without ENOSIS the solution would have been easy. ENOSIS and the way it was pursued is what drove more and more ordinary TC to desire partition.


It cuts both ways, the ordinary TC may not have wanted partition but their leaders, in particular Denktash and Turkey, certainly did. The ordinary GC did not want Taksim forced upon them, they wanted the security of Enosis to secure the island from a return of Turkish dominance. Third party States and local fanatics decided the fate of Cypriots not the ordinary citizen.

Well said Jerry. clear and precise.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Sotos » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:23 pm

Paphitis wrote:It is only bloody natural that they would want partition! It's not as if we gave them a chance or the opportunity to stand by the RoC!


They wanted partition from before there was a ROC.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Sotos » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:36 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Sotos wrote:The TCs wanted partition since the 1950s. What happened is what they WANTED to happen all along... and it is what they continue to want. Otherwise the solution would be easy. We get our properties back in the north and they get theirs back in the south. THEY don't accept this.


For most ordinary TC they did not want partition. They wanted to not have ENOSIS forced upon them against their will and with no effective say in this monumental decision that would fundamentally affect their lives in their own shared homeland. Without ENOSIS the solution would have been easy. ENOSIS and the way it was pursued is what drove more and more ordinary TC to desire partition.


They could have a say by voting against Enosis in a referendum... which is what GCs have been asking for. Or maybe by having a say you mean having the FINAL say, no matter what the majority of the population wanted? And as you admitted their DESIRE was PARTITION not just "not Enosis". They could have desired for independence or whatever else other than Enosis. But no. They desired Partition which could not happen without ethnic cleansing. So how can you call TCs "refugees" when ethnic cleansing and partition is exactly what they wanted.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Sotos » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:42 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Sotos wrote:
The TCs wanted partition since the 1950s. What happened is what they WANTED to happen all along... and it is what they continue to want. Otherwise the solution would be easy. We get our properties back in the north and they get theirs back in the south. THEY don't accept this.


Does every single Turkish Cypriot think exactly the same thing?


No... and those who do not want partition if they have their homes in the free part of Cyprus they can return to them. But how many TCs do you know that they don't want partition in one form or another? Most of them want a form of partition and they like the ethnic cleansing and want to maintain it as much as possible.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby erolz66 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:04 pm

I am not denying there were elements in the TC community and leadership that wanted partition after the end of British rule. I am just pointing out that the claim that 'TC wanted partition since the 1950's' is itself a distorted claim. For an ordinary TC in the 50s with British rule coming to an inevitable end what choices did they have ? Between ENOSİS and partition for most TC partition was the inevitable preference - especially given how ENOSIS was pursued leading up to the end of British rule and after it. We will never know how many TC would have sought partition over (sincere) independence because that was never an option offered. The point is it is pointless to just blame one community alone for the mess we are in today. The leaderships of both communities drove agendas that were absolutist and mutually unacceptable and the ordinary members of both communities allowed such extremists to be in control. Anyway if my 10 years of posting on this forum and other like it has taught me anything its that such discussions here are largely pointless and possibly do more harm than good so I will not say any more.
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:50 pm

Sotos wrote:
Paphitis wrote:It is only bloody natural that they would want partition! It's not as if we gave them a chance or the opportunity to stand by the RoC!


They wanted partition from before there was a ROC.


My post was about the erroneous statement that "there are no TC refugees".

There clearly are TC refugees according to the proper definition of the term. They fled from the perceived or real (and I would say their fear was very real) threat. Quite clearly they believed their lives were in danger, and their lives were in danger from the Nicos Sampson gangs and killing squads that went through Tohni and Sandarlar. These perverse acts were nothing less than war crimes and genocide.

As a result, they had little choice but to flee from this danger and get behind the Turkish Lines. Therefore, they are refugees in the truest sense!
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Re: Selling Turkish Owned Property in Cyprus

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:52 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
cbouissou wrote:Hello,

i'm a journalist based in Cyprus and i'm interested in that topic. I've discussed it with a few "officials" but i'd really like to talk to people 'really' confronted to the problem i.e. having a property in the north that they want - or don't want - to sell. Do you know anyone in that situation ? Thanks in advance for any kind of help. C.


One idea might be to go to a coffee shop or two in the refugee estates to be found in the main cities in the government-controlled parts of the island - most of the people there will have left property behind in the north. You could do something similar by visiting coffee shops in villages where refugees have been settled in the north.


Tim, the TCs who have gone to the north are NOT "refugees". The RoC has not made them "refugees". It is the country they want to be represented by that they have followed, voluntarily.


As if they had a choice!

As far as they were concerned, they had 2 choices. Abandon their villages and homes and get behind the Turkish Lines, or possibly face Nicos Samaras and his gang of thugs and killing squads that went through Tohni and Sandalar, to round up all TC males onto buses to be taken to a killing field for execution after they dug out their mass grave.

They are refugees alright. There are about 45,000 TC refugees according to the UN.

There was suffering on their side as well!


I was told the following story by a Turkish Cypriot. They lived in a predominantly Greek Cypriot village in Larnaca province in which there were also two Turkish Cypriot families. This was (and still is) a rock-solid communist village and they should have been safe there. When the troubles started, the other villagers pleaded with them not to flee and said they would make sure that no harm came their way. His family decided to flee, the other family stayed. The head of the other family was murdered soon after - not by his fellow villagers, it must be said. The question he asked me was, "Who was right?" In my book, anybody who flees for their life is a refuge, irrespective of their ethnicity, religion, native language, skin colour or whatever else you wish to base irrational prejudice on.

I am fairly sure that this story is true because a few years ago CyBC's Biz/Emeis programme interviewed members of the other family, the one that stayed to see the head of the household and main breadwinner murdered, on a visit to their old village. They were most insistent that they did not blame the Greek Cypriot community as whole for this incident, but considered it to be an act of murder committed by criminals.


Yes I agree Tim! They are refugees plain and simple!

In my book, anybody who flees for their life is a refuge, irrespective of their ethnicity, religion, native language, skin colour or whatever else you wish to base irrational prejudice on.
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