The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


loose talk or something more serious?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:37 am

Piratis, thanks for your reply. Would you therefore agree with the assessment that a Turkish Cypriot who argues on these forums against Denktas is also a traitor (although not from a Greek Cypriot point of view) as he is still currently the elected leader of people living in the north?


First of all I didn't say that anybody that argues against the President is a traitor, even if this happens in an open forum. If you ask me, I too have some criticism for our president, and there is nothing wrong with that.

What makes a traitor is when his words/actions hurt the national interests. And as we agreed above in democracies the national interests is defined by the majority.
So if your criticism can only hurt people (e.g the president) or the government, then you can make it in public forums with no problem. (except if what you say constitutes libel, in which you can end up in a court)

But if what you want to say can be used not just against people or government, but against the country itself, then you should be very careful where and how you say it. Notice that I didn't say that you shouldn't say it at all, just to be careful on the ways you will do so.

Would you therefore agree with the assessment that a Turkish Cypriot who argues on these forums against Denktas is also a traitor


First of all, as I said already just arguing against a person is not a treason. It depends on what and how you say it.
Second, Denctash today doesn't have the support of the majority of TCs.

But lets say there was a debate in the UN weather or not Turkish should be an official language of Cyprus, and there was a Turkish Cypriot that came here and gave arguments on why your language can not be an official one, then yes, I would perfectly understand if you considered this person a traitor.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby mehmet » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:27 pm

From today's Guardian.

Tali Fahima served her time in the Israeli army, voted for Ariel Sharon as Prime Minister and took it as given that her country was struggling for survival against terrorism.

Then last year, the 29 year old legal secratary from Tel Aviv picked up a newspaper and read about Zachariya Zubeidi, the Jenin leader of theal-Aqsa martyrs Brigade, the group responsible for killing hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings and shootings. Ms Fahima deciced she would ask Mr.Zubeidi why he killed Jews.

On Sunday, the military placedMs Fahima in detention without trial using a law applied to thousands of Palestinians over the past four years of intifida but rarely to Israelis.

........

'I had to ask why a man goesahead and does this',she told Israeli television this year. 'There is a reason for this. A man doesn't wakeup one morning and decide, 'OK I'm going to carry out an attack.'

.......

'Zubeidi is not a terrorist, rather he is fighting agaisnt the occupation. Suicide bombers are alsofighting the occupation. Put yourself in their place and seewhat happens. They are denied basic rights and freedom.'

These views have infurated many Israelis who have denounced Ms Fahima as a traitor and terrorist sympathiser. Her religious parents refuse to speak to her, and she was sacked from her job.

.......................................................................................................

I'm not seeking to say Turks are like Palestianians or any nonsense like that. But here we have someone who is also working agaisnt her national interests (as defined by 'popular' feeling) and fits the term traitor. Sometimes in history the heroes of today are the fools of tomorrow.
mehmet
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:30 am
Location: hastings, UK (family from Komi Kebir & Lourijina)

Postby Piratis » Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:29 pm

But here we have someone who is also working against her national interests (as defined by 'popular' feeling) and fits the term traitor. Sometimes in history the heroes of today are the fools of tomorrow.


Sometimes.

The distinction is: does this popular feeling goes against human rights, democracy and international laws? As I said many times the majority can take decisions as long as they do not violate any of the above. If somebody goes against this "popular feeling" to point out human right violations then I agree that while many might label him/her a traitor today, tomorrow this can change. This is the case in the example you gave, but is not the case with the people that I said act in a way that seems like treason.

This is why when I am asked about some crimes that some EOKA members committed I immediately condemn them. Because while the EOKA cause was a fair one, this can not excuse murders of innocents and thing like that.

(of course in the case of Israel my belief is that neither their cause, nor their actions are fair, but thats another story)
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby michalis5354 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:17 am

First Critisism is an essentail part of Democracy and wirthout criticism there is no democracy there is no Change , no progress no development no improvements.

Ignoring the critisism this shows arrogance which is very dengerous and it leads to the perpetuation of the problems.
User avatar
michalis5354
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1520
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:48 am

Previous

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests