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Nothing is personal - where to from here

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby Viewpoint » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:38 pm

By the time you get that gas out alternatives would have been found and the vlaue of this so called saviour would have plummeted just like your Greek bonds.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Jerry wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
B25 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:In my view, absolutely the worst part of this deal is that Cyprus has agreed (been forced) to reduce its banking sector to EU average levels in terms of its share of GDP by 2018. This is preposterous. It violates the basic principle of international law of the sovereignty of nations and the right to self determination. Nobody can dictate to another country what the size of its banking sector is to be. This also violates every principle of the the liberal free-market economic order that is supposed to exist in the EU and most of the world. Once the hurly burly dies down, the Cyprus government must fight this unjust and illegal measure in every available tribunal.

Tim i do agree, but, they didn't just come along and demand or instruct this. It was us that went for aid and they only greed to that aid IF we did this. We were free to reject it, but the consequences ould have been worst. I guess this would be thei get ou clause.
That said, it was criminal, immoral and bloody well discraceful the treatment they gave us.
Onwards and upwards and looking ahead. We need new ideas new initiatives and a different way of thinking.
I guess this will also put back the cypro even further ......


Yes, I understand - I put "been forced" in brackets, but I do not believe that it holds water under international law. A sovereign nation cannot, even so-called voluntarily, give up its sovereignty and right to self determination.


Tim, Cyprus has never been and is not, strictly speaking, a sovereign nation. How can it be, when other States have the legal right to intevene with military force? Cyprus was even expected to accept the illegal Annan Plan and was rebuked for not doing so. Cypriots are always accused of blaming others for their misfortune - they have good reason to.

I'm not sure any international Court will be prepared to listen to the ROC, after all the ECHR abandoned its duty to displaced Greek Cypriots when it accepted the IPC as a legitimate route for claiming compensation. The IPC has resolved 300 cases out of 4000 applications in six years, where's the justice in that?

Cyprus has every right to run its economy as it sees fit but its bankers made fundamental errors in putting all its eggs in the Greek basket and in making loans to developers in the belief that the housing boom would go on for ever. Instead of helping Cyprus our EU "friends" decided to put the boot in, gave us a good kicking and expect us to function as before despite our injuries. Cyprus can expect regular kickings until the oil starts to flow, maybe the boot will be on the other foot then.


Obviously it is a matter for experts in international law to deliberate on, but I still think every effort should be made to fight it. It is clearly not an immediate priority. There are five years until 2018.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby Jerry » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:57 pm

Tim Drayton wrote: Obviously it is a matter for experts in international law to deliberate on, but I still think every effort should be made to fight it. It is clearly not an immediate priority. There are five years until 2018.



Greek Cypriots were expected to accept the AP but here's what some international lawyers thought of it. Politics always trumps the rule of law in international affairs especially where small countries are involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_Plan_for_Cyprus
"I consider the Annan plan to be fundamentally flawed. To put it in common language I consider that plan to be a non-starter. It is so incompatible with international law and international human rights norms that it is nothing less than shocking that the organisation would bend to political pressure and political interest on the part of my country of nationality [the USA] and Great Britain, in order to cater for the interests of a NATO partner.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby Paphitis » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:23 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:In my view, absolutely the worst part of this deal is that Cyprus has agreed (been forced) to reduce its banking sector to EU average levels in terms of its share of GDP by 2018. This is preposterous. It violates the basic principle of international law of the sovereignty of nations and the right to self determination. Nobody can dictate to another country what the size of its banking sector is to be. This also violates every principle of the the liberal free-market economic order that is supposed to exist in the EU and most of the world. Once the hurly burly dies down, the Cyprus government must fight this unjust and illegal measure in every available tribunal.


Absolutely!

I can't believe the EU and Troika have done this and I can't believe Cyprus agreed to tax deposits or savings above 100,000. This is the worst kind of precedence to set and it has global ramifications.

And let's be honest here. Will any of us make largish deposits in Cypriot or Greek Banks again. No I don't think so. We would be scared to. Fact of the matter is, many will be hesitant to make largish deposits into many other EU countries including the UK because sorry to say, your fundamentals don't look enticing either. Lots of money will flee to Switzerland, Oil Rich Arabic states, China, US, Canada, Australia, even India.

I can foresee many Euros being converted to USD.

Basically, the EU and Cyprus have undermined consumer confidence in the Cypriot Banks. The rich will take what is remaining of their money and go. That is my belief and assessment of the situation.

So the Banking sector will shrink without the Cyprus Government doing anything.

We are also to blame. Who told Laiki and BoC to invest heavily in Greece? Is Greece the only country in this world? Why couldn't they just invest a small portion such as a couple of Billion and move the rest outside of the EU. How about some diversity? What were they thinking? Was it for the 17% interest rates? High interest rates mean things are not going well which equates to high risk. Dumb arses.

I tell you, some of the high level Bank Executives of Laiki and BoC should face an inquiry.

Anyway, it is even more important to move forward. A manufacturing base, a casino, etc etc.

Even IT services. There are many Cypriot IT specialists as well.

I think it is time for all Cypriots to cut the stupid anti American/British psyche and start talking business. It was all this nonsense that has undermined Cyprus time and time again. It even resulted in an invasion and occupation because we thought we were clever to go against the big boys and go non alignment imish and side with the USSR. Hello! How did that one go.

In the end Russia, out "great ally" egged on the Turkish Invasion because it thought it would lead to a war between Greece and Turkey. They were salivating at the prospect.

Well now there is no other choice. Cyprus needs to look towards the Middle East. Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Emitates, Kuwait et all.

We need to look towards North America. US and Canada.

Cyprus needs to look towards Asia. Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Let's not forget China.

Did I mention China? India? :lol:

Oceania - Australia and it's little Kiwi protectorate.

Brazil and Argentina too.

God Cypriot politicians are sooo shitty.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby Maximus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:58 am

The world is losing its mind and setting terrible precedents. Some people have started commenting on the resurrection of the illegal, immoral, unworkable annan plan as a solution to Cyprus's financial crisis .

I have a terrible feeling that Cyprus/Cypriots are being set up to accept more "special case" terms to be sidelined, vis-a-vis the Turks, so that others can exploit and benefit from the country's gas.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby finnish » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:29 pm

Thanks for all people on Cyprus!
We just lost 10000$ because of yours...
Euro lost all most 10 cents against USD with in last month. Peoples on Cyprus are angry for EU but in fact cypruses had cause so much trouble for all other European citizen with these bank conflict so all people in European area should be angry for Cyprus!
You don’t have any kind of reason burn European Union flags there we should burn yours flag here other countries. In fact we don’t be so ridiculous that we do so. Flags burns only in deepest jungle and by Beudins in the desserts.

Regards from Finland
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:02 pm

B25 wrote:Fine words Paphiti, and welcome back, I agree to a large extent to what you say.
May the force be with us. united we stand, united we shall fall.
Amen


Indeed. Welcome back.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby cyprusgrump » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:17 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
B25 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:In my view, absolutely the worst part of this deal is that Cyprus has agreed (been forced) to reduce its banking sector to EU average levels in terms of its share of GDP by 2018. This is preposterous. It violates the basic principle of international law of the sovereignty of nations and the right to self determination. Nobody can dictate to another country what the size of its banking sector is to be. This also violates every principle of the the liberal free-market economic order that is supposed to exist in the EU and most of the world. Once the hurly burly dies down, the Cyprus government must fight this unjust and illegal measure in every available tribunal.

Tim i do agree, but, they didn't just come along and demand or instruct this. It was us that went for aid and they only greed to that aid IF we did this. We were free to reject it, but the consequences ould have been worst. I guess this would be thei get ou clause.
That said, it was criminal, immoral and bloody well discraceful the treatment they gave us.
Onwards and upwards and looking ahead. We need new ideas new initiatives and a different way of thinking.
I guess this will also put back the cypro even further ......


Yes, I understand - I put "been forced" in brackets, but I do not believe that it holds water under international law. A sovereign nation cannot, even so-called voluntarily, give up its sovereignty and right to self determination.


I think we gave up the right to self determination when we joined the EU....
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby lucius » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:04 pm

finnish wrote:Thanks for all people on Cyprus!
We just lost 10000$ because of yours...
Euro lost all most 10 cents against USD with in last month. Peoples on Cyprus are angry for EU but in fact cypruses had cause so much trouble for all other European citizen with these bank conflict so all people in European area should be angry for Cyprus!
You don’t have any kind of reason burn European Union flags there we should burn yours flag here other countries. In fact we don’t be so ridiculous that we do so. Flags burns only in deepest jungle and by Beudins in the desserts.

Regards from Finland


Do not pay too much attention on short term exchange rate fluctuations. It is even useful if the Euro drops 10-20% more in relation to especially the dollar. Japan for instance just recently profited very well from a devalued yen. For export driven economies a devaluation almost always outweights the negative effects. Why do you think Switzerland linked its currency to the euro? The falling euro in relation to the Swiss franc really started to hurt their economy. So, you not really lose money by exchange rate fluctuations unless you invest in to currencies. So, unless you have a plummeting of the currency a gradual decline is no sign to worry. So far no signs of that yet. I doubt that Finland would be hurt by a declining currency, I for sure now that export-driven Germand industry loves every cent the euro drops vs. the dollar.

Also for a tourism-oriented economy a declining currency is useful. As long as they do not have an own currency they can devalue that at least is one silver-lining. For a heavily import-driven economy the picture is much differently of course.
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Re: Nothing is personal - where to from here

Postby kurupetos » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:21 pm

We need to increase self-sufficiency. Buying imported goods and/or goods from foreign-owned shops is tantamount to high treason. :wink:

Importing fossil fuels should be limited as well. Our renewable energy sources must be fully exploited, and the RES industry must be state-supported and encouraged for further development. :wink:
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