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german banking bail-out?

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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby kurupetos » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:07 am

repulsewarrior wrote:Draghi, too "big" to fail; that's why he hasn't resigned yet.

I agree he is a full member of the BG.

Mario Draghi is the current President of the Bank of Italy, as well as a board member of the Bank for International Settlements – the BIS (the central bank to the world’s central banks). In an interview posted on the website of the BIS in March of 2010, Mario Draghi stated that in response to the Greek crisis, “In the euro area we need a stronger economic governance providing for more coordinated structural reforms and more discipline.”[43] Mario Draghi also attended the 2009 conference of the Bilderberg Group.[44] Perhaps unsurprisingly, Mario Draghi has been backed by the euro-area finance ministers to be the successor to Jean-Claude Trichet at the European Central Bank, who is due to step down in October of 2011.[45]


http://www.globalresearch.ca/bilderberg-2011-the-rockefeller-world-order-and-the-high-priests-of-globalization/25302
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby bill cobbett » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:00 am

This is a bit of how the FT reports on Mario Draghi's comments ...

ECB draws bail-in lessons from Cyprus
By Michael Steen in Frankfurt

If the European Central Bank faces any blame for last month’s botched bailout of Cyprus, Mario Draghi was determined not to acknowledge it on Thursday. But the president of the ECB did say there were urgent lessons to be learnt on the need to specify a “pecking order” of assets that could be raided to fund future rescues.

Mr Draghi said an initial agreement between eurozone finance ministers, Cyprus and the ECB that would have levied a tax on insured deposits below €100,000 was a mistake.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a1db98e6-9d4a ... z2PLVvoKUp
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby Oceanside50 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:28 am

bill cobbett wrote:CY is a "special case"...!!!

Well, it's something we hear every day from Draghi of the ECB... CY is a "special case"

The ECB was established by a Council Regulation amongst whose terms is the requirement to treat all members of the Eurozone as equals, whether they be big or small. The equal treatment requirement together with the words big or small appear on the ECB web-site.

So isn't this oft repeated claim that CY is a "special case" a daily admission, in a very clearcut case, by the ECB that it has acted against its legal duty, that it has acted illegally by treating CY differently from the other members of the Eurozone.

... and where an institution of the Union has so flagrantly acted outside its remit, it must be brought to account.


how was Cyprus treated differently Bill?....For instance Greece had a blooted bureaucracy, the Eu forced the Greek govt to cut its bureaucracy to sustainable levels. In Cyprus' case its banking system was bloated with Russian money, that could be used to influence Cyprus' economy in a malevolent way....Its being corrected just like Greeces' problems are being corrected....
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby bill cobbett » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:48 am

Oceanside50 wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:CY is a "special case"...!!!

Well, it's something we hear every day from Draghi of the ECB... CY is a "special case"

The ECB was established by a Council Regulation amongst whose terms is the requirement to treat all members of the Eurozone as equals, whether they be big or small. The equal treatment requirement together with the words big or small appear on the ECB web-site.

So isn't this oft repeated claim that CY is a "special case" a daily admission, in a very clearcut case, by the ECB that it has acted against its legal duty, that it has acted illegally by treating CY differently from the other members of the Eurozone.

... and where an institution of the Union has so flagrantly acted outside its remit, it must be brought to account.


how was Cyprus treated differently Bill?....For instance Greece had a blooted bureaucracy, the Eu forced the Greek govt to cut its bureaucracy to sustainable levels. In Cyprus' case its banking system was bloated with Russian money, that could be used to influence Cyprus' economy in a malevolent way....Its being corrected just like Greeces' problems are being corrected....


We ain't talking about getting public spending in order, increasing efficiencies in the civil service etc. We ain't talking about the 10 Billion public debt. We are talking about the 7 Billion shortfall in the finances of (principally) Laiki.

We are talking about the unique ways in which depositors with Laiki and BoC are being treated. Nowhere else in the EU during several years of crisis, that have brought dozens and dozens of other EU Banks close to collapse, have bank depositors had their accounts raided. That is CY being treated differently.

All other banks everywhere else in the EU have been re-capitalised by printing Euros, by lending to these banks at around 1% interest over an undefined but very, very long term. That is CY being treated differently.
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby Oceanside50 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:28 am

bill cobbett wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:CY is a "special case"...!!!

Well, it's something we hear every day from Draghi of the ECB... CY is a "special case"

The ECB was established by a Council Regulation amongst whose terms is the requirement to treat all members of the Eurozone as equals, whether they be big or small. The equal treatment requirement together with the words big or small appear on the ECB web-site.

So isn't this oft repeated claim that CY is a "special case" a daily admission, in a very clearcut case, by the ECB that it has acted against its legal duty, that it has acted illegally by treating CY differently from the other members of the Eurozone.

... and where an institution of the Union has so flagrantly acted outside its remit, it must be brought to account.


how was Cyprus treated differently Bill?....For instance Greece had a blooted bureaucracy, the Eu forced the Greek govt to cut its bureaucracy to sustainable levels. In Cyprus' case its banking system was bloated with Russian money, that could be used to influence Cyprus' economy in a malevolent way....Its being corrected just like Greeces' problems are being corrected....


We ain't talking about getting public spending in order, increasing efficiencies in the civil service etc. We ain't talking about the 10 Billion public debt. We are talking about the 7 Billion shortfall in the finances of (principally) Laiki.

We are talking about the unique ways in which depositors with Laiki and BoC are being treated. Nowhere else in the EU during several years of crisis, that have brought dozens and dozens of other EU Banks close to collapse, have bank depositors had their accounts raided. That is CY being treated differently.

All other banks everywhere else in the EU have been re-capitalised by printing Euros, by lending to these banks at around 1% interest over an undefined but very, very long term. That is CY being treated differently.



Bill, the Eu hasnt issued one bond for any of its forays so far, which in the long term is very good for an economy (no debt), Laiki went bankrupt like many banks have been bankruputed recently in the usa, remember Lehman Brothers and in europe....Bank of Cyprus could have been bankrupt also, but they choose a different path for it, a haircut for accounts over 100,000 euros...different situations require different solutions... More importantly the Russian billions will leave Cyprus. Everyone is blaming the involvement of Cyprus' banks in Greece, but thats only 25% of the problem, the other 13billion were bad loans given to Cypriots, the economy of Cyprus is too small to be able to absorb loans like that...The problem would arise again in a few years had the Russian billions stayed...I know of many instances where 150,000 euro loans were given by Cyprus' banks with collateral a 2,000 euro "xorafi" or banks giving out credit cards freely to unsuspecting Cypriots...with so much money floating around things get out of hand....As happened with loans in the usa and bad mortgages, the Cyprus banking crisis and the American mortgage crisis are similar actually, unlike Greeces problems.
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby bill cobbett » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:05 am

... and as to bonds, the ECB does things a little differently or at least it has for every bank in the Euro except for Laiki and BoC.

Over the last few years of crisis it hasn't got the Euro out of trouble by issuing bonds or buying up government bonds but it has lent about ONE TRILLION EUROS directly to EZ Banks, as straight, freshly printed new Euros.

It charges those banks 1% interest on these loans and the banks in turn firstly get their books balanced and secondly they invest in European government bonds with a return of more than 1% ,(a nice and easy little earner)... so although starting differently, the end result is the same, ECB money being used to shore up banks (if they ain't Laiki and BoC) and indirectly to buy government bonds.

... and mate if we try and focus a little, the matter at hand is really a very simple one and it is based on the answers to a couple of questions...

Has the ECB treated CY Banks differently from all the other banks it has loaned money to...???

Has the ECB gone outside its remit by treating CY as "a special case"...???

Has the ECB acted under influence from the Commission, the IMF or others...???

If the answer to any one or more of these is yes, the ECB is in trouble.
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby Oceanside50 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:05 am

"...The EMU puts the finishing touches to the single market. Economic policy consists of three components. The Member States must ensure coordination of their economic policies, provide for multilateral surveillance of this coordination, and are subject to financial and budgetary discipline. The objective of monetary policy is to create a single currency and to ensure this currency's stability thanks to price stability and respect for the market economy..."

are subject to financial and budgetary discipline



to answer your questions Bill, it is no...to all three. :) The Eu has the right to correct any deficiencies in Cyprus financial sector as it deemed necessary, as for Greece the cure was different...

Another instance when Russian money caused havoc in Cyprus, the 2000 stock market crash

http://www.economist.com/node/252180


Cyprus has also become a favourite destination for Russian money, some of which goes into the stockmarket.


You probably recall the stockmarket crash of 1999-2000, one of the main reasons for the crash was investment by Russians into the market, which coupled with Cypriots following close behind led to the bubble crashing...
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:36 am

If Deutsche Bank (which is by far the largest German bank) were about to fail, the world stock markets would have crashed, but they didn't. I doubt if there is much substance to this rumour.
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:58 am

bill cobbett wrote:... and as to bonds, the ECB does things a little differently or at least it has for every bank in the Euro except for Laiki and BoC.

Over the last few years of crisis it hasn't got the Euro out of trouble by issuing bonds or buying up government bonds but it has lent about ONE TRILLION EUROS directly to EZ Banks, as straight, freshly printed new Euros.

It charges those banks 1% interest on these loans and the banks in turn firstly get their books balanced and secondly they invest in European government bonds with a return of more than 1% ,(a nice and easy little earner)... so although starting differently, the end result is the same, ECB money being used to shore up banks (if they ain't Laiki and BoC) and indirectly to buy government bonds.

... and mate if we try and focus a little, the matter at hand is really a very simple one and it is based on the answers to a couple of questions...

Has the ECB treated CY Banks differently from all the other banks it has loaned money to...???

Has the ECB gone outside its remit by treating CY as "a special case"...???

Has the ECB acted under influence from the Commission, the IMF or others...???

If the answer to any one or more of these is yes, the ECB is in trouble.


I firmly believe the answer to all three is a yes and the RoC, Laiki, BoC and depositors should consult lawyers.

The question is, if I am right, what is the RoC Government doing about it?

It should be working on a plan to withdraw from the Eurozone in an orderly fashion with as little pain to the RoC, the Banks, and people as is possible. The way I see it is that the ECB can't be trusted to make fiscal decisions in the interests of all 17 EZ members. Quite clearly, they have almost destroyed the Cypriot Banking Sector. If Cyprus was not in the EZ, our Central Bank would be able to use inflation by printing money and lending it to the Government and Banks at 1% to sure up any black holes and allow forward lending at a retail mark up.

It would still be tough but we could get out of the mess.

The ECB printed for everyone else bar Cyprus. They call us a "special case". Basically I take this to mean that we are a bunch of idiots.

Don't know of the connection can be made but I believe the ECB violated the European Charter or the very ideals on which the EU was founded. A bunch of good lawyers could have their field day on this and other matters.

But like I said. I think an orderly exit back to the pound should be on the agenda whilst retaining our EU membership.
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Re: german banking bail-out?

Postby bill cobbett » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:29 pm

Yes quite right P... and the matter of an exit from the Euro...

In a few years time we are all hopeful of massive monies from the gas and oil and that will be a time for CYs to think about whether they still want a currency that's mis-managed for the benefit of the northern Eurozone by the Frankfurt Bankers and the ECB, who are quite happy to have screwed CY in the past few weeks...

...or whether they would benefit from a New CY Pound, one that's backed up by those very nice oil and gas reserves, a new and strong petrocurrency totally within the control of CY.
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