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Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby Lordo » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:00 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Sure, some people came to Greece over time from other places. That's the same anywhere. But the Minoans are the continuation of the earliest inhabitants (that's what the article confirms) and all are known as early Greeks - just like the cave-dwellers of Britain are known as early-Brits. The rest of your spouts are irrelevant. Greeks have changed over time - that doesn't mean they were not Greek or are not Greek now. Look how much the English have changed from the time of Shakespeare.

So, have you finally accepted that not all symbols represent a sound?


you mean there were greaks who were not in greace and came to greace as greace was being formed. thats a slippery slope to madness.
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:20 pm

Lordo wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Sure, some people came to Greece over time from other places. That's the same anywhere. But the Minoans are the continuation of the earliest inhabitants (that's what the article confirms) and all are known as early Greeks - just like the cave-dwellers of Britain are known as early-Brits. The rest of your spouts are irrelevant. Greeks have changed over time - that doesn't mean they were not Greek or are not Greek now. Look how much the English have changed from the time of Shakespeare.

So, have you finally accepted that not all symbols represent a sound?


you mean there were greaks who were not in greace and came to greace as greace was being formed. thats a slippery slope to madness.


Yes, there were no border controls in Greece thousands of years ago. Some things have not changed ...
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby Get Real! » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:27 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Lordo wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Sure, some people came to Greece over time from other places. That's the same anywhere. But the Minoans are the continuation of the earliest inhabitants (that's what the article confirms) and all are known as early Greeks - just like the cave-dwellers of Britain are known as early-Brits. The rest of your spouts are irrelevant. Greeks have changed over time - that doesn't mean they were not Greek or are not Greek now. Look how much the English have changed from the time of Shakespeare.

So, have you finally accepted that not all symbols represent a sound?


you mean there were greaks who were not in greace and came to greace as greace was being formed. thats a slippery slope to madness.


Yes, there were no border controls in Greece thousands of years ago. Some things have not changed ...

Well that explains why Greece didn’t exist… it didn’t have any borders! :lol:
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:47 pm

Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Lordo wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Sure, some people came to Greece over time from other places. That's the same anywhere. But the Minoans are the continuation of the earliest inhabitants (that's what the article confirms) and all are known as early Greeks - just like the cave-dwellers of Britain are known as early-Brits. The rest of your spouts are irrelevant. Greeks have changed over time - that doesn't mean they were not Greek or are not Greek now. Look how much the English have changed from the time of Shakespeare.

So, have you finally accepted that not all symbols represent a sound?


you mean there were greaks who were not in greace and came to greace as greace was being formed. thats a slippery slope to madness.


Yes, there were no border controls in Greece thousands of years ago. Some things have not changed ...

Well that explains why Greece didn’t exist… it didn’t have any borders! :lol:


I write "no border controls" and you skew to "any borders". Your attention to detail has sadly gone the way of your common sense.
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:04 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Sure, some people came to Greece over time from other places. That's the same anywhere. But the Minoans are the continuation of the earliest inhabitants (that's what the article confirms) and all are known as early Greeks - just like the cave-dwellers of Britain are known as early-Brits. The rest of your spouts are irrelevant. Greeks have changed over time - that doesn't mean they were not Greek or are not Greek now. Look how much the English have changed from the time of Shakespeare.
M
So, have you finally accepted that not all symbols represent a sound?


But the point when the people in what is now Greece became definably Greek was likely sometime after 2000bc before they met the Minoans, likely in about 1700bc or so, and by which time the Minoan Civilisation was well defined.

English does not use a Syllabic Script.I can infact read the English of Shakespeare, with a struggle that of Chaucer, who was a few hundred years earlier again. Beowulf , in very early English, not quite.

The key point is that for a Syllabic script the syllabic symbols reflect sound, otherwise it would not be a Syllabic script. That Linear A is a Syllabic script is proven by linear B where essentially the same symbol set corresponds to sounds, which when strung togther in words are Greek. Earlier Cretan Hyroglyphics on the other hand were likely not a Syllabic script. Interestingly linear B only arrives at about the time the previously illiterate Greeks took over in Crete. I suspect that rather than invent a new sytem which would mean having to agree how sounds and symbols correspond the Scribes took an existing system and with minor mods adapted it to fit Greek. A lot easier than reinventing the wheel.

What you have otherwise failed to explain is why if linear a represented Greek there was such a rapid change, virtually overnight, from Using Linear a to using Linear B which meant everyone having to learn a new system.
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:34 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote: That Linear A is a Syllabic script is proven by linear B where essentially the same symbol set corresponds to sounds, which when strung togther in words are Greek.


Nothing is proven! That is your assumption! Your opinion! Stop mixing it up with facts!

Linear A is one of two currently undeciphered writing systems used in ancient Greece


That is the fact!

If you try and decipher it with the constraints of Linear B, then:

....Linear A mainly produces unintelligible words. If it uses the same or similar syllabic values as Linear B, then its underlying language appears unrelated to any known language.


So .... STOP!

You have not got a clue!

At least I'm trying to free it from the constraints that have not produced results.

Linear A might very likely represent ideas and concepts as do some of our symbols today - which if you tried to ascribe sounds to would become unintelligible also, right? I gave you the example of the infinity symbol: there are more.
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:04 pm

but the point you overlook and have not dealt with is the ease with which Linear A symbols were converted to the plainly Syllabic Linear B. That logically suggests the symbols used in linear A had a syllabic value, nor why if Linear A represented Greek as you claim is spoken by the Minoans pre say 1400 bc - it was necessary to invent Linear B to do the same job, however logic has never bbeen your strong point, your common answer at best being bland denial if not abuse, when the ideas being promulgated do not subscribe to your own pathetic blinkered view point.

Indeed if you were to do a bit of basic research you would find that my views on Linear A (a) being a syllabic script and (b) not being Greek are rather more mainstream thinking, starting with EG Michael Ventris in the 1940's.

Mainstream thought also suggests that Greek as a language only developed in Mainland Greece around or just after 2000 bc, before regular contact between the early Greek Speakers and the Minoans, Greek having developed locally in mainland Greece, then being exported by the aggressive Mycenaean expansion. that itself excludes the Minoans being Greek speaking.
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:20 pm

What is the matter with you?

If Linear A has not been deciphered by trying to equate it with Linear B, why do you still harp on about the need to keep up this comparison?

As I suspected, your knowledge is too limited (as is mine) to produce a worthwhile discussion, so please stop repeating inanities.

And you know nothing about "mainstream thought" as you have zero contact with classicists and academics. The Internet is not mainstream!
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby Get Real! » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:22 pm

There was no Greece... there was no Greek... there were no Greeks... it's all bullshit.

It's all coming together...
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Re: Minoan civilisation developed locally in Crete.

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:33 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:What is the matter with you?

If Linear A has not been deciphered by trying to equate it with Linear B, why do you still harp on about the need to keep up this comparison?

As I suspected, your knowledge is too limited (as is mine) to produce a worthwhile discussion, so please stop repeating inanities.

And you know nothing about "mainstream thought" as you have zero contact with classicists and academics. The Internet is not mainstream!


You are not answering the questions I raised which is typical but try your usual shout louder and try to shut them up because they do not agree with your point of view.

Any way pull out the names of the academics and classistists who discuss linear A and who theorise it is (a) not Syllabic and (b) Greek?

what otherwise is your theory on the origin and development of Greek as a language?

The internet is in fact a vast repository of Academic information - see for example Google Books - Wikepedia - ? often has references and links to Academics....

hereby the way is a comment on the Language of the Minoans -
The current prevailing hypothesis is that the Minoan language was unrelated to the Indo-European family,
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n5/full/ncomms2871.html
mainstream enough?
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