Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

birkibrisli
unless vassos1 doesnt give a reply fast to kifeas beautiful post... we will drive this thread really out of topic.

vp is either busy, or at some point realised that the arguments are just recycling. i would take my chances though and guess that vp is a "he"

the saying you mention , as far as i know we dont have the same.

I imagine that the person abusing me is a human being who is hurting so much deep inside that he/she can't help but be rude.They don't want to but they can't help themselves.You can't be angry with someone doing something that is beyond their power to stop

we were discussing that a couple of nights ago. if you run back to aristotele or plato they would argue that every person in a society has an abilty to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. the just a century old science - psycology- would argue your way.

if we take an extreme example, which is beyond my borders of forgiveness : child abusers. i wouldnt accept (or not yet) any psycologist arguement of the kind: but he is sick, bc of his bad childhood, it was beyond his power when he was abusing the kids. i am not (yet) in a position to accept such a statement. a bad childhood can for sure influence our lives, but there should be a limit where that is used as an excuse to justify our actions.

thanks for the complement but i dont think i qualify.
in a dictionary wise is: having the knowledge and experience to make good and sensible decisions. i am not old enough to have experience and i can already define a number of decisons i took as not-so-sensible

wise for me (outside dictionaries now) brings in mind a very old person, who has reached the point, at which he is able to make peace with death. so when it comes to that : i am not old, and i am still afraid of death

[BirKibrisli]

Selam,cypezokyli

if we take an extreme example, which is beyond my borders of forgiveness : child abusers. i wouldnt accept (or not yet) any psycologist arguement of the kind: but he is sick, bc of his bad childhood, it was beyond his power when he was abusing the kids. i am not (yet) in a position to accept such a statement. a bad childhood can for sure influence our lives, but there should be a limit where that is used as an excuse to justify our actions.

I agree this is a difficult one.Most of the time child abusers are those who have been abused as a child themselves.They are victims turned victimisers.I think they should be given one and only one chance to reform and get some meaning in their lives.If they are repeat offenders,they have to be sick,and should be treated accordingly.I am not sure about punishment.Putting them in jail is usually a death sentence(in Australia at least).They are called "rock spiders" and are usually raped or killed in jail.Nobody deserves to die,but nobody has the right to take a child's innocence away either.Pity prisons are only capable of punishing people they hardly ever rehabilitate anyone.Society is so cruel sometimes.I really don't have an answer to this.

We all make mistakes sometime,and I don't think that disqualifies us from being wise about some things.Being able to make peace with death?
That is a very tough test you've set to judge wiseness,imho.
I think that goes beyond wiseness,to true enlightenment.And it probably has little to do with age.In my experience (I've lost my father some years ago and my mother is 86 now) old people do get resigned to dying,and they lose their fear of death,but they don't want to die.
It is often younger people who seek death in one way or another.
This is getting pretty depressing,cypezokyli.And way off target.
If you ever find peace with death let me know.I will make you my Guru whatever your age

[cypezokyli]

lets close try and close this paernthesis gardash
i guess if you let some child abuser out and he repeats it then u r guilty as well.
if you leave in prison someone who could indeed reform and use his second chance then you are again guilty.
stupid dilemas.

when it comes to, some agressive or offensive posts, then i guess u can try and argue with them (which sometimes makes no sense after a while), or ignore them , or accept it (and let them continue). its again a difficult decision. one way can push them further away, the other will practically show them they can do it for ever.
no magic recipee i guess
....
ok no more death stuff...lets return back to optimism and kifeas post.

[zan]

Zan gardash,
you forgot Ghandi, Martin Luther King,Nelson mandela,Abraham Lincoln,Kemal Ataturk,Jesus Christ,Mohammed,Moses,Socrates et al...

You have to aim for the sky if you want to go to the stars.Sometimes you will get there.Other times you will burn or burn out,but others who will follow you might eventually achieve your dreams.No easy way I am afraid.

It seems that you are willing to play with the lives of the TCs , who are the ones that will be at risk, so that your dream can MAYBE come true. I would much prefer a safer option. What a thing to ask? You sit half way around the world in relative safety and insist that the lives of others be put at risk for the sake of a dream. Another arm chair general playing with other people’s lives. Half my family live out there and most of them would prefer the safer option. My brother in-law has had stones thrown at him from the other side and he has thrown some back, I wonder what his dream for Cyprus is and that of the stone throwers from the other side?

If you want to be a Ghandi, shave your head, put on your robes and go to Cyprus. And whilst the two sides let you starve to death because they are to busy killing each other, remember your dream, it will give you solace as you pass over to the other side.

[cypezokyli]

i though kassandras where a greek speciality!!!!
thanks zan for your nice words.

just a question. do you think people just hate each other or are they lead to hate?

[zan]

i though kassandras where a greek speciality!!!!
thanks zan for your nice words.

just a question. do you think people just hate each other or are they lead to hate?

I’m just looking at the situation realistically. The hate is already there; you can’t dismiss it through ideology. It is part of the situation now. Where it came from is up to which side you belong to, even that is contested by both sides. Even history cannot give us definite answers. Your question makes it sound like I am the one responsible for all this hate. I hate no one. Well maybe a friend that let me down badly, but I don’t know if even that is really hate.
If a Ghandi does appears and can unite the sides and make them see sense, then I will be the first to bow down and kiss his feet.
Who is to be our Ghandi? One of the two governments? A combination of the two? Isn’t that what they have been arguing about for decades? Tell me who is out there that you would pick to run the country so that both sides feel they are getting a fair deal. Even the great Annan plan failed.

[cypezokyli]

why did the tcs vote yes then? was there no fear and hate before?

[BirKibrisli]

Zan gardash,
you forgot Ghandi, Martin Luther King,Nelson mandela,Abraham Lincoln,Kemal Ataturk,Jesus Christ,Mohammed,Moses,Socrates et al...

You have to aim for the sky if you want to go to the stars.Sometimes you will get there.Other times you will burn or burn out,but others who will follow you might eventually achieve your dreams.No easy way I am afraid.

It seems that you are willing to play with the lives of the TCs , who are the ones that will be at risk, so that your dream can MAYBE come true. I would much prefer a safer option. What a thing to ask? You sit half way around the world in relative safety and insist that the lives of others be put at risk for the sake of a dream. Another arm chair general playing with other people’s lives. Half my family live out there and most of them would prefer the safer option. My brother in-law has had stones thrown at him from the other side and he has thrown some back, I wonder what his dream for Cyprus is and that of the stone throwers from the other side?

If you want to be a Ghandi, shave your head, put on your robes and go to Cyprus. And whilst the two sides let you starve to death because they are to busy killing each other, remember your dream, it will give you solace as you pass over to the other side.

I think you are being a bit selective with your reality,Zan.
Is it the safer option really to live in a lawless state?Don't you know that women older than your mother are being robbed and stabbed in the TRNC on a weekly basis?Is it safe to live in a state where gambling,prostitution,and drug pushing are the primary sources of income?Where poor unfortunate souls are being employed with slave wages on illegal building projects?Where trade unionist (women included)can get kicked and punched by "special forces" for trying to make a protest?Where journalists are gunned down like dogs in the street?Where newspaper offices get bombed in the middle of the night?
I could go on but it is too depressing.If you can't see that the very existence of the TCs as a distinguished cultural group is threatened as we type at our computers in the safety of our homes in exile,there is nothing I can do for you.It is a pity though.Cypezokyli and I will not have the pleasure of your company in a united Cyprus in a near future.I was looking forward to visiting you in your bed between satin sheets and sipping tea or Cyprus brandy.
So that those who have not read the other thread don't get the wrong idea,Zan was threatening to take to his bed with satin sheets if he was forced to live with us in a United Cyprus

[bg_turk]

Don't you know that women older than your mother are being robbed and stabbed in the TRNC on a weekly basis?Is it safe to live in a state where gambling,prostitution,and drug pushing are the primary sources of income?Where poor unfortunate souls are being employed with slave wages on illegal building projects?Where trade unionist (women included)can get kicked and punched by "special forces" for trying to make a protest?Where journalists are gunned down like dogs in the street?Where newspaper offices get bombed in the middle of the night?

Birkibrisli, the way you are describing the TRNC I am getting the impression that you are actually talking about Iraq in terms of violance, North Korea in terms of oppression and Cuba in terms of state control.

[zan]

Zan gardash,
you forgot Ghandi, Martin Luther King,Nelson mandela,Abraham Lincoln,Kemal Ataturk,Jesus Christ,Mohammed,Moses,Socrates et al...

You have to aim for the sky if you want to go to the stars.Sometimes you will get there.Other times you will burn or burn out,but others who will follow you might eventually achieve your dreams.No easy way I am afraid.

It seems that you are willing to play with the lives of the TCs , who are the ones that will be at risk, so that your dream can MAYBE come true. I would much prefer a safer option. What a thing to ask? You sit half way around the world in relative safety and insist that the lives of others be put at risk for the sake of a dream. Another arm chair general playing with other people’s lives. Half my family live out there and most of them would prefer the safer option. My brother in-law has had stones thrown at him from the other side and he has thrown some back, I wonder what his dream for Cyprus is and that of the stone throwers from the other side?

If you want to be a Ghandi, shave your head, put on your robes and go to Cyprus. And whilst the two sides let you starve to death because they are to busy killing each other, remember your dream, it will give you solace as you pass over to the other side.

I think you are being a bit selective with your reality,Zan.
Is it the safer option really to live in a lawless state?Don't you know that women older than your mother are being robbed and stabbed in the TRNC on a weekly basis?Is it safe to live in a state where gambling,prostitution,and drug pushing are the primary sources of income?Where poor unfortunate souls are being employed with slave wages on illegal building projects?Where trade unionist (women included)can get kicked and punched by "special forces" for trying to make a protest?Where journalists are gunned down like dogs in the street?Where newspaper offices get bombed in the middle of the night?
I could go on but it is too depressing.If you can't see that the very existence of the TCs as a distinguished cultural group is threatened as we type at our computers in the safety of our homes in exile,there is nothing I can do for you.It is a pity though.Cypezokyli and I will not have the pleasure of your company in a united Cyprus in a near future.I was looking forward to visiting you in your bed between satin sheets and sipping tea or Cyprus brandy.
So that those who have not read the other thread don't get the wrong idea,Zan was threatening to take to his bed with satin sheets if he was forced to live with us in a United Cyprus

And what alternative are you offering