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Corruption here? surely not!

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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Demonax » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:51 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote: When a country like Cyprus has to sell off its Gold Reserve, which is used to buy weapons in time of war, to pay off loans made by corrupt Cypriot banks , it may be the time that we beg the the Brits to recolonize Cyprus ...


That was precisely the reason the Brits sold their own gold reserves, first. To prop up bankers. We have no choice, we are still governed by Brits and their corrupt, unregulated banking system.

The next step in this war will come courtesy of the EU ...


Just to clarify. Cyprus hasn’t sold its gold reserves. These stories cropped up at the time of the bailout, but it was made clear that there were better ways of raising money by issuing bonds against the reserves so that the gold need never actually be sold. Till now, not even this plan has been put into action and it’s not even on the agenda.
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:05 am

Demonax wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote: When a country like Cyprus has to sell off its Gold Reserve, which is used to buy weapons in time of war, to pay off loans made by corrupt Cypriot banks , it may be the time that we beg the the Brits to recolonize Cyprus ...


That was precisely the reason the Brits sold their own gold reserves, first. To prop up bankers. We have no choice, we are still governed by Brits and their corrupt, unregulated banking system.

The next step in this war will come courtesy of the EU ...


Just to clarify. Cyprus hasn’t sold its gold reserves. These stories cropped up at the time of the bailout, but it was made clear that there were better ways of raising money by issuing bonds against the reserves so that the gold need never actually be sold. Till now, not even this plan has been put into action and it’s not even on the agenda.


Thanks Demonax. I assumed Oceanside had some facts correct at least, and that I had missed some vital news.
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Oceanside50 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:10 am

bill cobbett wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:Yes... but where is the reaction from ordinary CYs to two calamities, to Mari and the Banking Scandal...???

Things won't change without such a massive reaction.

Why haven't we seen thousands of CYs out on the streets ... ???

I ll tell you why,Bill. It's the ghosts of the past..Even recently while Cypriots were demonstrating at the Presidential palace, a Christofias spokesman told the crowd, if the government falls, you will give the Turks a reason to attack.. It goes to the Cypriot saying "shipse ti kele. Sou jai siopa"...it has nothing to do with acting civilized, the highest form of democracy is to revolt against tyranny...Besides Cypriots are too rich to risk breaking a nail or getting a dent in their German car...


Well said file.

An ex-President rewarded with a chauffeured top-of-the-range Merc and multi-thousand euro pension for life along with all the place-men from the past and the

usual families who sit at the top table in CY.

Are you all too busy to protest? Too pre-occupied with lazy days cooling and lounging on beaches, with over-eating souvla and afternoon sex...???

Nothing changes 'til people change it.

Enough with the excuses CYs, enough with the indulgences... take to the streets...!!!


GreekIslandGirl wrote:


Oceanside50 wrote:
When a country like Cyprus has to sell off its Gold Reserve, which is used to buy weapons in time of war, to pay off loans made by corrupt Cypriot banks , it may be the time that we beg the the Brits to recolonize Cyprus ...
That was precisely the reason the Brits sold their own gold reserves, first. To prop up bankers. We have no choice, we are still governed by Brits and their corrupt, unregulated banking system.
The next step in this war will come courtesy of the EU ...


The bailout deal hasnt been finalized just yet. The gold reserves could be used as collateral for repayment,if in the future the reserves may be used for direct payment of the bailout. The title deed scandal, which involved banks, lawyers, contractors and the governments title deed office, could very well be a huge chunk of the bailout for these banks. Does anyone know the breakdown of where the money was spent by the banks and lost?...has it been made public other then the few headlines in the beginning about loans to mp's etc... Does anyone deny that the Cyprus problem has been used in the past by certain groups to intimidate and manipulate the masses and by doing this covering up misdeeds and corruption?.. I think its an art perfected over the past 39 years and it continues...

The next step in this war will come courtesy of the EU ..


The Eu has what it wanted it all along, access to the hydrocarbons...What next step does the Eu need to take?...if you havent realized, the Sovereignty of Cyprus is slowly being transferred to the Eu, which means, they get the final say on a solution or if there ever is one...
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:05 am

Oceanside50 wrote:
The next step in this war will come courtesy of the EU ..


The Eu has what it wanted it all along, access to the hydrocarbons...What next step does the Eu need to take?...if you havent realized, the Sovereignty of Cyprus is slowly being transferred to the Eu, which means, they get the final say on a solution or if there ever is one...


So now the EU needs to protect those hydrocarbon sources it so desired! So long as these assets are used to protect Cyprus from Turkey's expansionist plans, aren't they being well used? If our politicians can further convince the EU that it will be worthwhile at some point (sooner the better) to completely remove Turkey from EU soil and hence release further assets (from the sea between Crete and Cyprus for example) then we have gotten everything we went into the EU for! As for "loss of sovereignty" to the EU - I don't see where the problem is if the EU continues to become more democratic, egalitarian - and so long as we continue to have a say in its running and leadership then that can only be for long-term good.

BTW An EU solution is probably going to be preferable to a UN solution.
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:46 am

Oceanside50 wrote:or the Cypriot bankers making loans to people they knew wouldn't get repayed,which bankrupted the country..can we also include the millions of bad loans that weren't repayed but written off to former Presidents and MP's...


Never heard of such a thing!

Do you have any supporting sources?
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:00 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:Yes... but where is the reaction from ordinary CYs to two calamities, to Mari and the Banking Scandal...???

Things won't change without such a massive reaction.

Why haven't we seen thousands of CYs out on the streets ... ???


As awful as Mari was, that's a one-off which has to be put into perspective, part of the learning curve. It's not as though worse things don't happen elsewhere for you to beat the Cypriots about this one disaster (from which lessons were learnt as Christofias turned away a similar consignment afterwards.)

Here are some similar disasters (wiki) for people to stop being racist against Cypriots and accept that disasters happen everywhere (we poor humans are only wise in retrospect! )

February 7, 2010: 2010 Connecticut power plant explosion. A large explosion occurred at a Kleen Energy Systems 620-megawatt, Siemens combined cycle gas- and oil- fired power plant in Middletown, Connecticut, United States. Preliminary reports attributed the cause of the explosion to a test of the plant's energy systems.[6] The plant was still under construction and scheduled to start supplying energy in June 2010.[7] The number of injuries was eventually established to be 27.[8] Five people died in the explosion.


March 2011: Fukushima I nuclear accidents in Japan. Regarded as the largest nuclear disaster since the Chernobyl disaster, there were no direct deaths but a few of the plant's workers were severely injured or killed by the disaster conditions resulting from the earthquake.


February 7, 2008: The 2008 Georgia sugar refinery explosion in Port Wentworth, Georgia, United States. Thirteen people were killed and 42 injured when a dust explosion occurred at a sugar refinery owned by Imperial Sugar.


February 1, 2008: Istanbul fireworks explosion. An unlicensed fireworks factory exploded accidentally, leaving by some reports at least 22 people dead and at least 100 injured.


November 19, 2010: Pike River Mine disaster in New Zealand. At 3:45pm, the coal mine exploded. Twenty-nine men underground died immediately, or shortly afterwards, from the blast or from the toxic atmosphere. Two men in the stone drift, some distance from the mine workings, managed to escape.


April 17, 2013: Fertiziler plant explosion in West, Texas, an explosion occurred at the West Fertilizer Company storage and distribution facility in West, Texas, 18 miles (29 km) north of Waco while emergency services personnel were responding to a fire at the facility. At least 14 people were killed, more than 160 were injured and more than 150 buildings were damaged or destroyed.


Sadly, the list is endless ...


The problem in Cyprus is that there are no independent watch dogs.

For example, if Mari were to happen elsewhere, you would have a Royal Commission, and Senate Inquiry and Federal Court hearings.

The Ministers can't have access to any presiding Federal Judges, and no one is able to pull any strings. Or at least it is much harder to do so as chances are it will be discovered.

I will give you an example. You have a Minister for Transport, who is in charge of Aviation and so forth. The Parliament issues the Civil Aviation Regulations which are passed as Law. A regulatory body is formed that is handed responsibility for enforcing the Regulations. The Minister has no decision making power, nor can it interfere with any investigations. The Regulatory Body in effect is untouchable in terms of conducting its duty and its officers can't be sacked for doing their job. On top of that, if there was a major accident killing 400 people let's say, a Senate Inquiry may be formed to audit the Regulatory Body and the Investigation process. Then the matter proceeds to the Courts.

You can't have the airline owner, calling his political mates, and then the Minister calling the Director of the Regulatory Body.

Anti corruption protections are multilayered for a reason because corruption does exist, so you need Parliamentary and Senate Inquiries, a Judicial System, Independent watch dogs, to oversee the Regulator and verify that it has the power to do what it is suppose to do without political interference and to also make sure that it is doing its job properly and not trying to cover up any endemic failures on its part due to let's say improper or insufficient auditing and surveillance of the industry.

Many things can be done to improve, but even with such an approach, the system is still not full proof.

Maybe Cyprus is just too small to have all these systems in place. The sad thing is, it can't afford this approach at this time.
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:09 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:
The next step in this war will come courtesy of the EU ..


The Eu has what it wanted it all along, access to the hydrocarbons...What next step does the Eu need to take?...if you havent realized, the Sovereignty of Cyprus is slowly being transferred to the Eu, which means, they get the final say on a solution or if there ever is one...


So now the EU needs to protect those hydrocarbon sources it so desired! So long as these assets are used to protect Cyprus from Turkey's expansionist plans, aren't they being well used? If our politicians can further convince the EU that it will be worthwhile at some point (sooner the better) to completely remove Turkey from EU soil and hence release further assets (from the sea between Crete and Cyprus for example) then we have gotten everything we went into the EU for! As for "loss of sovereignty" to the EU - I don't see where the problem is if the EU continues to become more democratic, egalitarian - and so long as we continue to have a say in its running and leadership then that can only be for long-term good.

BTW An EU solution is probably going to be preferable to a UN solution.


The EU does not have access to the hydrocarbons at this point in time.

The hydrocarbons were kept out of all bail out negotiations by the RoC Government.

Furthermore, the hydrocarbons do not need that much protection either. UNCLOS is in force, so Turkey just can't come and steal anything. It wouldn't even try and there are quite a few countries involved. You have the US, Israel, RoC, and Egypt. In the future, some other countries may also get a slice of the action.
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Oceanside50 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:08 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:or the Cypriot bankers making loans to people they knew wouldn't get repayed,which bankrupted the country..can we also include the millions of bad loans that weren't repayed but written off to former Presidents and MP's...


Never heard of such a thing!

Do you have any supporting sources?


Vassiliou, for example, 1.6 million loan from bank of Cyprus never repayed but written off.. Numerous MP's the same.. After all this was made public computer discs turned out missing erased etc... Can't believe you haven't heard of this
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Demonax » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:45 pm

Oceanside50 wrote:
Vassiliou, for example, 1.6 million loan from bank of Cyprus never repayed but written off.. Numerous MP's the same.. After all this was made public computer discs turned out missing erased etc... Can't believe you haven't heard of this


These people are innocent until proven guilty. However, we could always revert to the tried method of guilt/innocence by burning them at the stake. If the accused screams, you may consider him guilty.

If he or she remains silent during the burning, we may conclude they are innocent. It's a fool-proof, time-tested determination of guilt or innocence.
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Re: Corruption here? surely not!

Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:07 pm

Demonax wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:
Vassiliou, for example, 1.6 million loan from bank of Cyprus never repayed but written off.. Numerous MP's the same.. After all this was made public computer discs turned out missing erased etc... Can't believe you haven't heard of this


These people are innocent until proven guilty. However, we could always revert to the tried method of guilt/innocence by burning them at the stake. If the accused screams, you may consider him guilty.

If he or she remains silent during the burning, we may conclude they are innocent. It's a fool-proof, time-tested determination of guilt or innocence.


Demonax,

I have no idea if the accusations are correct or not. To me it sounds quite far fetched but not impossible. Banks giving loans to politicians and elitist families which then don't pay it back as the debts are written off for political favour I would presume. Quite scandalous if true, especially as the Banks required a Bail Out and the savings of good hard working citizens had to be levied for this to occur. In effect, the working and middle classes were funding the loans of the political elites and the old guard establishment. I wouldn't be pleased at all if true.

The other issue is that even if it is true, you are absolutely correct in saying that all parties are innocent until proven guilty. Yes no problem with that at all!

Unfortunately, when it comes to the establishment and ruling elite political classes, they would never be taken to task. In effect, they are above the law and don't need to answer to the allegations in all likelihood.

I met Vasiliou once. And I recall having quite an extensive chat with him. I agree that there is something about him that is quite genuine.
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