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disappointed about TRNC flag

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disappointed about TRNC flag

Postby bg_turk » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:53 am

Dear Admin,

I believe you made the wrong decision by banning the TRNC flag from the avatar list.
You say the mission of this forum is "unity" but:

(1) Not to allow the TC flag as an avatar, forces many TCs to use the Turkish flag which is as partitionist as one can get.

(2)Besides the presence of the Annan flag which is regarded by many GCs like Piratis, Main_Source, etc. as partitionist is against encouraging "unity" so in conformity with the "unity" mission of this forum I suggest the Annan Plan flag to be banned as well.

If you believe you can encourage unity by forcing upon us your own interpretation of "unity" by prefering one flag over the other, I am afraid to say that you will simply be confronted with the harsh reality of loosing more and more TCs. Your actions will only result in a complete segregation of TCs and GCs.

I find banning the symbol of TCs, and allowing the symbol of GCs, when this forum is supposed to encourage dialogue very disappointing.

My good intentions have not been reciprocated and I am extremely disappointed.
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Postby Main_Source » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:53 am

'good intentions'!? crap!

All you want to do is create a division for your anti Greek efforts. Why dont you go away to the ATCA website or to some Bulgarian one



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Main_Source, please do not use swear words.
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Postby Admin » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:26 am

(1) Not to allow the TC flag as an avatar, forces many TCs to use the Turkish flag which is as partitionist as one can get.

The Turkish flag doesn't represent partition. A united Cyprus and Turkey can coexist. The same can not be said for the trnc.

(2)Besides the presence of the Annan flag which is regarded by many GCs like Piratis, Main_Source, etc. as partitionist is against encouraging "unity" so in conformity with the "unity" mission of this forum I suggest the Annan Plan flag to be banned as well.

The Annan flag was designed to be the flag of a united Cyprus. Some members might disagree with the type and degree of unity of that plan but this doesn't make the flag a partitionist one. The same flag could in the future be used in a revised Annan plan that would be accepted by both communities.

If you believe you can encourage unity by forcing upon us your own interpretation of "unity" by prefering one flag over the other

As we agreed the forum has a certain unity bias in the case of avatars. Beyond that a member can express his opinion freely as long as he/she remains within our rules. I do not force any interpretation of "unity" since both the RoC and the Annan flags are there. The trnc flag is a partition flag. I don't see how anybody could interpret it in a different way. If there are any TC flags that are not associated with partition I would gladly add them.

I am afraid to say that you will simply be confronted with the harsh reality of loosing more and more TCs. Your actions will only result in a complete segregation of TCs and GCs.

The forum provides free speech to everybody. However the partitionists (and enosists) are not encouraged. As I already explained this forum was created with the purpose of bringing people together something which is in sharp contrast with the aim of partitionists. Increasing the membership of partitionists/enosists is not our aim. Such thing would increase the conflicts and tension and defeat the purpose of the forum.

I find banning the symbol of TCs, and allowing the symbol of GCs, when this forum is supposed to encourage dialogue very disappointing.

Several GCs had asked me at times to add enosist flags and I refused. Neither of the two extremes is represented with an avatar and I believe this keeps the right balance. The flag of RoC is not a GC flag. It doesn't have any blue color or a cross in it. It has our common island and leaves of olive that represent peace. It was in fact designed by a Turkish Cypriot.

My good intentions have not been reciprocated and I am extremely disappointed.

I can understand your disappointment. I have good intentions also. We simply see things from a different point of view.

This section is for suggestions and feedback regarding the Cyprus-Forum website. I believe we have already gone way beyond this aspect of this topic. I will leave this threat unlocked for a while in case you feel that you need to reply to something I said. However please do not pose any more general kind of questions. This is not the right section for that and I do not claim I have the correct answers regarding the main issues of the Cyprus Problem.
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Postby bg_turk » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:45 am

Forcefully banning the symbol of a group will achieve only artificial unity, real unity will be achieved only when people choose the flag of unity through their own will.

Your attitude does not favor people who seek unity because they would choose the flag of unity anyway, it simply provokes those who hesitate to choose unity and makes their views more extreme.

I simply demand from you the freedom of choice.

"What is freedom? Freedom is the right to choose: The right to create for yourself the alternatives of choice. Without the possibility of choice a man is not a man but a member, an instrument, a thing."
Archibald Macleish

I refuse to be an instrument to your hidden agenda of promoting the RoC.
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Postby Admin » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:06 am

I simply demand from you the freedom of choice.


bg_turk, I am not the God or your king. The level of freedom that you have depends on other factors and it has very little to do with me or the Cyprus-Forum.

The one who has the freedom to choose which images are hosted on this server - always within the limits of law - is the one who is ultimately responsible for the content of this website. That one is not you. This is why this section is called "Suggestions and Feedback" and not "Commands and Orders".

I believe I have already explained the reasons for this choice and we simply have to agree that we disagree.

Thanks for your feedback and sorry that your suggestion can not be implemented at this point.
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Postby andytandreou » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:19 am

What you guys are doing is pathetic!!! At a time when the whole planet along with Greece and Cyprus accept we will never unite with North Cyprus you guys insist to delete flags that don't represent your EXTREME ideology of unity!!!

Listen, admin and others, there are agreements between Ntektash and Makarios dating back many years that re-affirm the fact that a solution to the Cyprus problem will always be based on some degree of separation.

Those of you that think Cyprus will once again be united from Larnaka to Kyrenia are not only illiterate but fail to follow news and current events.

Even Tasos Papadopoullos accepts that the Anan Plan is a base for negotiations, therefore accepting that unity will never be achieved.

But lets say we follow your leveling and extreme ideology of unity (which we DON'T and will NEVER happen). Why ban the trnc flag? If you want to speak with your opponent shouldn't you at least let him in the door first?

Again I have to remind you that your attitude it one of propaganda, extremism and control. There are other forums that accept trnc symbols as a way of making Turkish Cypriots feel equal. You guys will never reach that level of civility and it's only a matter of time until this forum falls behind.

Extremism and intransigence was something we used to accuse Ntektash of, not Greek Cypriots. What a shame!!!
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Postby Piratis » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:48 am

At a time when the whole planet along with Greece and Cyprus accept we will never unite with North Cyprus you guys insist to delete flags that don't represent your EXTREME ideology of unity!!!

Unity is an extreme ideology according to Andy!

Extremism and intransigence was something we used to accuse Ntektash of, not Greek Cypriots. What a shame!!!


So you used to accuse Denctash, but now apparently you are in full agreement with him.

What a shame indeed Andy.

If you are proud of your beliefs then go put the "TRNC" flag on a pole outside your home and let everybody admire you and let them be ashamed for us, we don't mind. OK?
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Postby andytandreou » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:13 pm

Piratis wrote:
At a time when the whole planet along with Greece and Cyprus accept we will never unite with North Cyprus you guys insist to delete flags that don't represent your EXTREME ideology of unity!!!

Unity is an extreme ideology according to Andy!
Piratis I don't like to play with words. You obviously do! Unity IS an extreme idology when applied to Cyprus. Unity as a concept in life is OK. Why don't you have a normal discussion with me Piratis. You are trying to present me as a seperatist person NOT by using arguments but by twisting my words and using half the meaning of what I write! I kindly ask you to stop; and grow up!!
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Postby andytandreou » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:20 pm

Piratis wrote:So you used to accuse Denctash, but now apparently you are in full agreement with him.

What a shame indeed Andy.

If you are proud of your beliefs then go put the "TRNC" flag on a pole outside your home and let everybody admire you and let them be ashamed for us, we don't mind. OK?


Piratis please grow up. This forum is not a place for childish accusations and silly games. I said "used to accuse" because Ntektash USED to be in power. He no longer is. I would point you to all the people who said "NO" to the Anan plan. Do they all share the same views as Ntektash? Again... please take your pointless slander and stick it where the sun don't shine!

I will point out AGAIN (am really getting tired of this) that my fellings have nothing to do with the trnc flag. Banning a flag which represents Turkish Cypriots is not a way to create a forum which supports an equal discussion between Turkish and Greek Cypriots. It is a way of alienating one community and creating a forum of just Greek Cypriots (which it clearly is) and to be perfectly honest, I've exhausted enough efforts talking to Greek Cypriots like Piratis! I want to have a discussion with all types of people not just blind drones!!
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Postby Piratis » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:43 pm

Unity IS an extreme idology when applied to Cyprus.

Thanks for confirming your position.

On the other hand I think the extreme ideology is the one represented by the flag you support which represents the racist separation, the ethnic cleansing and the human rights violations of 100s of thousands of people.

banning a flag which represents Turkish Cypriots

This flags represents not the Turkish Cypriots but the "TRNC" = partition = racism. Not all Turkish Cypriots are racist partitionists. Go ask Birkibrisli or Levent if they are represented by that flag.
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