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FEDERATION, CONFEDERATION or TWO-REPUBLICS?

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Rude Gal » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:43 am

pg wrote:Let's look at it with the method of elimination...

Two independent republics: Does anyone really mean that it would be possible to have an independent country of 150,000 people today? What sort of economy would be able to support that administration? It could even not be based on making an income from selling land to tourstis, since the plan would anyway be to use that money to pay compensation to the real owners of the land.

FYI there are many tiny nation states in the Pacific e.g. Tuvala with I think about 7,000 people and thanks to Global Warming they are going to be covered by water soon. :cry:

Size doesn't matter when it comes to Statehood. International recognition, helps greatly, but as Taiwan has shown, not essential. Just need a fair few powerful states to acknowledge you and semi-deal with you...

pg wrote:A unitary state: I beleive everyone except the real idealists has dumped that idea. Why would GC like to get involved in all matters related to the TC community anyway.

Agreed. And many (but not all) TCs feel uneasy at sharing same space with former aggressors. I'm sure true also for some GCs?

pg wrote:With regards to federation or confederation I really do not think we need to put a name on it before we need one. Better discuss what goes where, and once we agree to that we should probably be able to also name "it".

I think the question for many is instead - can we really be bothered? Most people are not really... and for them the question is more "what is in it for me". Many others are also more confortable with an utopian future (on both sides) than to swallow their pride and live with something less than utopia.

I think that in order to "sell the solution" everyone needs instead to start projecting the positive images of it, for example, what can we do instead with the money and time we now spend on the military, hiw can we market a true bi-cultural tourist destination, how can the cypriot service industry work towards the Turkish market, how do we better develop the industries like education, energy, telecom, etc, once we are actually good friends with everyone in the region.

So let's find areas of common interest/concern to both sides. It does not have to be many. Even one will do! The turtles, the search for Atlantis, protecting the environment, whatever! We need to create some positive role-models that show that trust, respect and equality can work in Cyprus for the mutual good.

Power to the People!
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Postby ONURLU_1925 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:10 am

Piratis wrote:At that time we didn't even have 4500 soldiers defending Cyprus. Even if some of those were soldiers though, why is a person defending his own country against the invader not innocent???


23 November 1967, Demirel warned Greek Government to withdraw 13.000 Greek Soldiers from Cyprus. We don't know Greek Government withdraw their soldiers. However, we know that Greek Army was the part of 15 July Coup in Cyprus. So, we can cleary see there were Greek soldiers in Cyprus. Greek Army&EOKA-B killed about 2,000 GCs.
Your mistake is here. GCs&Greeks didn't want to defend their own country, they wanted to rule all of Cyprus, Cyprus didn't belong to GCs only.



to pg; he said that;
"Does anyone really mean that it would be possible to have an independent country of 150,000 people today? What sort of economy would be able to support that administration?"

my friend population based economy had been in middle ages.
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Postby Dhavlos » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:18 pm

I say that although (many) TCs want a two state solution...this will not solve their problem... Any kind of solution that involves bizonality will not work, mainly because the GCs will be able to buy back the land the would 'loose'.

Imo, it is almost impossible for TCs to enforce the 'bizonality'...because of the EUs freedom of movement.
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:27 pm

Dhavlos

You would be welcome to live under the TRNC. The aim of the TRNC is not to have only a TC state just one that determines it's own fate.
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Postby Dhavlos » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:31 pm

ok, ok, ....but what would happen if the TRNC was then inhabited by more GCs...eg, those who returned to their 'ancestral homes' ....would you then argue that they should be stopped. I fear that GCs are only welcome if they do not become more populous than TCs...however, historically, even the north of the island is mostly populated by GCs...

dont get me wrong, i like TCs as much as the next person...i just feel that the arguement for a form of bizonalality is just short-0sighted, and will not bring a lasting solution, unless the TCs are going to descriminate/restrict movement...
Last edited by Dhavlos on Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Main_Source » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:32 pm

Just imagine...a so called Turkish republic in Cyprus with an overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots...that makes sense doesnt it.
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Postby Dhavlos » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:33 pm

thats what im trying to say.....

(hey source, do u like it here more?)
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:46 pm

Dhavlos wrote:ok, ok, ....but what would happen if the TRNC was then inhabited by more GCs...eg, those who returned to their 'ancestral homes' ....would you then argue that they should be stopped. I fear that GCs are only welcome if they do not become more populous than TCs...however, historically, even the north of the island is mostly populated by GCs...

dont get me wrong, i like TCs as much as the next person...i just feel that the arguement for a form of bizonalality is just short-0sighted, and will not bring a lasting solution, unless the TCs are going to descriminate/restrict movement...


Dhavlos
I like to see the world without borders and without flags. It is unfortunate though that some people like to stick a flag in the ground and then set about whipping them selves in to frenzyto keep others out. The fact of the matter is that all nations restrict the number of foreign nationals for obvious reasons.
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Postby Lala_Mustafa_Pasha » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:48 am

Piratis
So we ethnically cleansed TCs from southern Cyprus ah? Do you read what you write?


Thats right, its exactly what you did, stop living in denial/

Not only we didn't do that, it would be stupid even to think that we would remove TCs from one part of Cyprus and place them in another part so they would have a separate state there!!


You put us in enclaves get it, rounded us up and stuck us in enclaves, your ARMED EOKA TERRORISTS following there lovely Akritos plan and having the time of their life trying to exterminate Turks were too busy in the slaughtering process to think about their actions, I mean you dont even see us as equal human beings, no wonder you did the things you did :roll:

If we had performed ethnic cleansing of TCs this would have been done over the whole Cyprus and no TC would have existed in Cyprus. As you know this didn't happen anywhere except your imagination.


You never fail to make me laugh, Mr Ignoranus here has a hard time swallowing facts.

Heres the deal, you tried to wipe every single Turk out but we fought back and with our Turkish brothers established a free, harmonous, liberated nation free of Greek barbaric Terrorism.

EOKA Terrorists Greek Junta were armed forces killing un-armed Turks and burning our villages, there was no war at the time, Greek Junta was the agressor against innocent people.

When the Turkish Millitary Legally interwined, it was a "war", comprehend, yes you heard a War and what happens in a war, the two opposing sides battle against each other and thereforth people die its not rocket science.

The worst bit is before the war Greek Junta forces were bragging that they'd destroy the Turkish millitary, that you'd bog us down in war for years that it would be a next Vietnam :lol:

Well people who use big words when killing old grannies and little boys and girls are not brave or heroes theyre cowardly fassies. You wanted war hehe it came, you lost get over it, you always loose its a sad reality you should think twice about trying to start a war with Turks next time.

Its clear, your sad, jelous and bitter that your cowardly Junta was defeated in a few days by our glorious brave Yigit ogul Yigit army.

The conclusion is, Greek Junta = Guilty for killing un-armed civillians in a time where there was no war

Turkish Millitary = Liberators, brave and honourable for fighting against EOKA Terrorists in a "war".

Difference is, Greek Junta killed people during non-war time, Turkish Army killed Armed Greeks in a "war", doesn't take rocket science to work out in wars people die cos armed forces are battling, go read a book, work it out, one day you'll get it :wink:

Kibris is Turk get over it, its staying this way, were populating like mad soon we may even enter Greek Cyprus and spread our love :lol:
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Postby VEX8 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:54 am

If like me you are new to the Cyprus conflict but want to learn more i found that this site http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/cy.html has some of the facts set in an impartial way. However can anyone recommend any sites that give factual accounts of what happened in 1963 and what has happened since in an unbiased way?
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