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THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby bigOz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:26 am

As for Kemal (Atatürk) - are we talking about the same guy who chased the invading Greek armies from Central Anatolia all the way into the Aegean Sea with an army outnumbered by more than 2 to 1? Here are the Turkish forces during the 1919-1921 war:
Soldiers Turkish: Greek:
1919: 5,000 20,000
1920: 15,000 90,000
1921: 50,000 100,000
1921: 92,000 200,000

Killed 22,500 42,000
& missing

Your glorious Greek army have their photographs wading to the boats in the sea around Izmir for a hasty exit back to mainland! :roll:

Why am I not so surprised that you hate the guy! The rest of Today's Europe, Middle East and Asia revere the man's name as a "hero"... :D
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby Demonax » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:40 am

bigOz wrote:Why am I not so surprised that you hate the guy! The rest of Today's Europe, Middle East and Asia revere the man's name as a "hero"... :D


Ataturk as a hero to the world? Are you off your Turkish rocker? He's not even a hero to the Prime Minister of Turkey :lol: :lol: .
Last edited by Demonax on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby Demonax » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:42 am

Interesting posts, kimon. This is another point of fracture in the myth of Turkish unity. It sheds light on how the Turkish state treats its minorities by marginalising and persecuting them and how Erdogan's policies in Syria on the side of the jihadis will come back to haunt him.

Here is an interesting article which takes a similar line to those you post:

It is crystal clear that Alevis feel increasingly ostracized by a government that refuses to recognize their houses of worship, is reluctant to make satisfactory amendments in line with ECHR rulings, bars them from even commemorating the atrocities they have suffered, and — on top of everything — is pursuing a pro-Sunni foreign policy.

It goes without saying that in the eyes of Alevis, the government’s Syria policy is in no way irrelevant to the situation described above. Given this background, the lines of Rober Koptas in Agos weekly make perfect sense: “The impact of the Syrian war on [the border province of] Hatay is embodied in the anxiety of the Nusayri [Alawite/Alevi] population in the area and their not-so-tolerant attitude toward refugees fleeing to Turkey. Its reflection in domestic politics comes in the form of a conviction, especially in secularist quarters, that the AKP supports the jihadists in Syria. Anatolian Alevis, in turn, perceive this as another manifestation of Sunni cruelty, even though they have no profound cultural bonds with Arab Alawites, or Nusayris.”

With the AKP making no effort to find a solution, the Alevi problem is likely to deepen in parallel to the Syrian crisis, and new areas of social conflict are likely to emerge as a result.

As Koptas says, if the government “continues to resist a fair and peaceful solution to Alevi problems, the Syrian quagmire could drown Turkey, pulling it by its Alevi rein. The crisis sparked by the Kurdish problem yesterday could be rekindled by the Alevi problem tomorrow, and an all-encompassing spiral of violence could take the country hostage for who knows how many years.”


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... syria.html
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby Get Real! » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:56 am

Demonax wrote:Interesting posts, kimon.

Yes, as interesting as a blackened chewing gum stuck on one’s sole after walking for hours... :lol:
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:06 am

bigOz wrote:As for Kemal (Atatürk) - are we talking about the same guy who chased the invading Greek armies from Central Anatolia all the way into the Aegean Sea with an army outnumbered by more than 2 to 1? Here are the Turkish forces during the 1919-1921 war:
Soldiers Turkish: Greek:
1919: 5,000 20,000
1920: 15,000 90,000
1921: 50,000 100,000
1921: 92,000 200,000

Killed 22,500 42,000
& missing

Your glorious Greek army have their photographs wading to the boats in the sea around Izmir for a hasty exit back to mainland! :roll:

Why am I not so surprised that you hate the guy! The rest of Today's Europe, Middle East and Asia revere the man's name as a "hero"... :D


Now tell us how many Armenians, Pontians ang Grek civilians he massacred? Or would you like me to tell you that too?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:17 am

bigOz wrote:kimon7 - you are a typical manupilating vankler of a Greek who copies and pastes selected parts from a source just to mislead the others and prove a point that does not exist! Reh bello shillo! Your flucking pastes lack these info from the same sources:


But I gave you the spources right?

In any case, at the end of the dayi THIS is what counts and what Turkey is facing today.

Alevis are now reconstructing their religious traditions, doctrines and organisations as well as demanding a fair share of access to the state and its resources as a separate religious/ethnic community in Turkey........

The question for the Turkish state and its leaders is whether they can reconstruct a national Turkish identity that does not base itself solely on the Sunni element of society, but is secularist and pluralistic enough to accept Alevism (and Kurdism) as equal partners in the national formula, with legitimate expressions of their cultural and religious uniqueness and equal access to all state resources and power centres. This entails the use of the state and all its organs in a massive construction of a pan-national consensus on this identity, which would label as illegitimate any attacks on the former marginalised groups.........

http://www.angelfire.com/az/rescon/ALEVI.html

Isn't it?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:03 am

Demonax wrote:Interesting posts, kimon. This is another point of fracture in the myth of Turkish unity. It sheds light on how the Turkish state treats its minorities by marginalising and persecuting them and how Erdogan's policies in Syria on the side of the jihadis will come back to haunt him.


The Turks officially recognize as ethnic minorities the following:

Kurds, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians/Syriacs, Azerbaijanis, Chechens, Circassians, Georgians, Greeks, Laz, Roma.

Last census held was in 1965 48 years ago!!!). I wonder why? What was the population growth from 1965 till today? And what was the growth within the minorities and especially the Kurdish? Just think that According to the OECD/World Bank population statistics in Turkey, the population growth from 1990 to 2008 was 16 million or 29% (1,21%).

Source:
Demographics of Turkey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Turkey

Like I said. Am 100% sure the Alevi issue will become the new "kurdish issue" of Turkey. Regardless of what the Turks say, the Alevis consider themselves to be not only a religious but also and ethnic minority and it seems that they intend to press for the recognition of this status and of their rights.

P.S. If the Alevis are as much Turkish a any other Turk in Turkey, why are they being murdered and harassed and persecuted by the Turkish state and the other Turks?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby bigOz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:51 pm

Why are you talking about what happened in the past - a period of two wars when atrocities and murders of both military and civilians took place in hundreds of millions all over the world! Why you so interested in the miserable lives of double dealing, back stabbing Armenians who have been proven to have killed many Turkish civilians and buried them in mass graves before the Turkish army even reached the ares. If your army conquered an area dominated by Turks and found hundreds of Greeks murdered/buried in mass graves, what do you think they would do to the Turkish civilians (nothing less than what their Serbian cousins did to Musşims in Bosnia - and for no good reason - I guess).

You give the source in the hope that no one bothers to read the full story - so it will be OK if I come and fluck your partner and leave my phone number to say "OH, I just paid a visit to your place, had a coffee and left"! When you find out I raped your partner I can get away by saying "So, but I left you my number if you wished to find out more about my visit" :lol:

Fake Armenian claims that more than a million Armenians got murdered have been proven wrong by historic facts and records many times in this forum - so stop serving us the same story every couple of years - we are not buying! All you are trying to do is stir hatred against Turks, a behaviour that can self inflict too much pain :D Map of ottoman Turkey drawn up at the end of 1897 shows the total population of Greeks and Armenians in various settlements in Turkey. The consensus demonstrates that at the time there were no more than 900,000 Armenians living there. Considering at least 300,000 were left behind, that much more left to France and tens of thousands died when marching down to coast across Eastern Anatolia during freezing cold, how on earth anyone in their right mind would believe "a million Armenians were massacred"? Typical Western and Greek Turko-phobia at its best!

Demonax wrote:
bigOz wrote:Why am I not so surprised that you hate the guy! The rest of Today's Europe, Middle East and Asia revere the man's name as a "hero"... :D


Ataturk as a hero to the world? Are you off your Turkish rocker? He's not even a hero to the Prime Minister of Turkey :lol: :lol: .

Demonax - making such statement as above shows clearly your level of intelligence and how manipulative your brains work! Where in above quote do I say "Ataturk is a hero to the world?" ??? Ataturk was and is a hero to his own people and always an enemy of the Sharia seeking Muslim holy men! The whole world recognise him as such (except the Armenians and Greeks - who are both currently licking Turkish arse because of their economic difficulties...). If you want proof I can start a new thread on the life of Atatürk - I am sure you would love reading that one :lol:

What you and "kimono" are in fact doing in practice, by attacking Atatürk, is declaring alliance with Erdoğan, who probably hates him just as much as you do if not more. Perhaps it is time you two become members of the AK party! :lol:

By the way, Atatürk was nowhere near when thousands (not even hundreds of thousands) Armenians were massacred by a Turkish General, who acted more with his feelings than sense in response to discovering mass graves belonging to Turkish villagers in the area. Very much like what happened when the invading Turkish army discovered the mass graves in 3 Turkish villages not too far from Salamis near Famagusta! You would have probably done the same even more in revenge - and lets admit it Orthodox members Greek, Russian. Armenian, Serbian etc. do not need much excuse for carrying out atrocities! :roll:

THE ARMENIANS OF TURKEY SUPPORTED THE INVADING ARMY AND STARTED TO TERRORISE/KILL TURKS IN THEIR LOCALITY, BACKING UP THE INVADING FRENCH ARMY. THUS, THE ARMENIANS WERE TRAITORS! THE PENALTY FOR TRAITORS IN EVERY COUNTRY THAT PARTICIPATED IN WW1 WAS DEATH. WHEN THE WAR WAS OVER, TRAITORS GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED!
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:08 pm

bigOz wrote:Why are you talking about what happened in the past.......


I too would hate to be reminded of my past if it was like yours. History is a bitch, isn't it? It unmasks us all. But history must be known so that it will not be repeated.

You and your heroes can deny the Armenian and other genocides and ethinc cleansings, including those of the Alevis, as much as you want. Historical facts will not change. Armenians fighting or trying to kick out from their ancient homeland the Mongols were not traitors. They were patriots.

P.S. The massacres and murders and oppression of Alevis are not "past". They happen even TODAY.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby bigOz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:23 pm

kimon07 wrote:
bigOz wrote:Why are you talking about what happened in the past.......


I too would hate to be reminded of my past if it was like yours. History is a bitch, isn't it? It unmasks us all. But history must be known so that it will not be repeated.

You and your heroes can deny the Armenian and other genocides and ethinc cleansings, including those of the Alevis, as much as you want. Historical facts will not change. Armenians fighting or trying to kick out from their ancient homeland the Mongols were not traitors. They were patriots.

P.S. The massacres and murders and oppression of Alevis are not "past". They happen even TODAY.

DREAM ON kimono! See how far you and your likes will get! Do some research into your own (Orthodox) history and you will be surprised how much will surface - of course you "would hate to be reminded".

Funny, what you claim as the ancient home of Armenians is more recently claimed as part of Kurdistan! Now which one are we to believe - please do let me know! :lol: Why don't the "barbarian Greek" hoards who descended from Northern Europe on to the Aegean civilisations and Macedonia leve the country to their original owners, rather than steal their history, culture, and names parading all as "Greeks" or "Hellens". Your Nation and ethnicity is just as fake as your mytholoical Gods and warriors! As I said "DREAM ON KIMON"! :lol:
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