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THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:25 pm

kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?


Simple. They support Kemalism hoping that islamism will not prevail in Turkey fearing, in such a case, the worst for their minority. Just read the turkish press to see how Erdogan speaks publicly about them and their worship places. Besides, if you are a minority in a country YOU HAVE to support one political trend or the other. Don't you? Even the remaining Greeks of Constantinople and the Armenians and the Kurds of Turkey vote for turkish political parties. Does that make them Turks?


How come the leader of Ataturk's party is an Alewite then???? If they are a different ethnic group, how come millions of Turkish Sunnis vote for this party? No need to mention CHP is quite nationalistic. I live in Turkey and I haven't met a single Alewite saying 'I am not Turkish but I am Alawite.` You are an outsider without having met a single Alewite and you claim they are not Turks!! Show us proof or shut up.


See my posts and my links again. I said, or rather, my linlks showed, they are reestablishing their status moving towards appearing themselves to be ont only a religious but also an ethnic minority. See above my links to avoid reposting them.

As for them declaing of being or not being Turkish, well. They already have enough troubles with the Turks as it is, especially in the country. Would you expect individuals to risk saying something else? In Turkey of all places?


How can a religious group be a different ethnic minority? Syrians are Sunni and Alewite but they are Arabs. There are Turkish Sunnis and there are Turkish Alewites. I don't see anyone who claims they are a different ethnic group. Please show it giving names of people who made such claims rather than directing people to links. (unless you are inventing things of course)
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm

kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?


Simple. They support Kemalism hoping that islamism will not prevail in Turkey fearing, in such a case, the worst for their minority. Just read the turkish press to see how Erdogan speaks publicly about them and their worship places. Besides, if you are a minority in a country YOU HAVE to support one political trend or the other. Don't you? Even the remaining Greeks of Constantinople and the Armenians and the Kurds of Turkey vote for turkish political parties. Does that make them Turks?


How come the leader of Ataturk's party is an Alewite then???? If they are a different ethnic group, how come millions of Turkish Sunnis vote for this party? No need to mention CHP is quite nationalistic. I live in Turkey and I haven't met a single Alewite saying 'I am not Turkish but I am Alawite.` You are an outsider without having met a single Alewite and you claim they are not Turks!! Show us proof or shut up.


See my posts and my links again. I said, or rather, my linlks showed, they are reestablishing their status moving towards appearing themselves to be ont only a religious but also an ethnic minority. See above my links to avoid reposting them.

As for them declaing of being or not being Turkish, well. They already have enough troubles with the Turks as it is, especially in the country. Would you expect individuals to risk saying something else? In Turkey of all places?


This may be enlightening also:

Turkey falls into parts on ‘national pride map’
ISTANBUL
October/03/2012

A survey shows that Turkish citizens’ feelings of national pride show regional variations. While 85 percent of people in Central Anatolia say they are proud of being a Turk, the number is 23 percent in southeast..........
Proud Turks 2.jpg


Survey results showed that when asked whether they were proud of being a Turk, some 10 percent of Turkish society declined to be called a Turk. In the largely Kurdish populated southeast region only 23 percent said they were proud of being a Turk, the survey said.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey ... sCatID=341

Question: Where does the majority of the Alevis live?

I think their majority is in the areas where the "proud" Turks are betwen 23% to 85% of the population?

Alevis_in_Turkey.gif
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:50 pm

Now then! Back to our topic. Can the Alevi issue evolve to a new "Kurdish issue" in Turkey?

By Orhan Kemal Cengiz
………….

With the AKP making no effort to find a solution, the Alevi problem is likely to deepen in parallel to the Syrian crisis, and new areas of social conflict are likely to emerge as a result.
As Koptas says, if the government “continues to resist a fair and peaceful solution to Alevi problems, the Syrian quagmire could drown Turkey, pulling it by its Alevi rein. The crisis sparked by the Kurdish problem yesterday could be rekindled by the Alevi problem tomorrow, and an all-encompassing spiral of violence could take the country hostage for who knows how many years.”
Orhan Kemal Cengiz is a human rights lawyer, columnist and former president of the Human Rights Agenda Association, a Turkish NGO that works on human-rights issues ranging from the prevention of torture to the rights of the mentally disabled. Since 2002, Cengiz has been the lawyer for the Alliance of Turkish Protestant Churches.
Read the whole article her:
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ar/cont ... z2cPllt1HE
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:51 pm

kimon07 wrote:
Alevis_in_Turkey.gif


Is this a joke? Alewites in Turkey are concentrated in Central Anatolia. Do you know the meaning of Center??? Middle??? Red area!!!!!

I don't want fake charts or maps. I want you to quote names of people who say they are not Turkish but they are Alewites. I still don't see any proof that they are a different ETHNIC GROUP and not Turkish. And you still can't answer why Alewites vote overwhelmingly for a nationalistic Kemalist Turk party. And why would such a party elect an Alewite as their leader?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:52 pm

stpier wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
Alevis_in_Turkey.gif


Is this a joke? Alewites in Turkey are concentrated in Central Anatolia....


Alewites did you say? I was referring to the Alevis.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:54 pm

kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
Alevis_in_Turkey.gif


Is this a joke? Alewites in Turkey are concentrated in Central Anatolia....


Alewites did you say? I was referring to the Alevis.



Answer the above questions......
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:26 pm

stpier wrote:Is this a joke? Alewites in Turkey are concentrated in Central Anatolia....


Alewites did you say? I was referring to the Alevis.

Alawites in Turkey

The exact number of Alawites in Turkey is unknown, but there were 185 000 Alawites in 1970.[66] As Muslims, they are not recorded separately from Sunnis in ID registration. In the 1965 census (the last Turkish census where informants were asked their mother tongue), 180,000 people in the three provinces declared their mother tongue as Arabic. However, Arabic-speaking Sunni and Christian people are also included in this figure.
Alawites traditionally speak the same dialect of Levantine Arabic with Syrian Alawites. Arabic is best preserved in rural communities and Samandağ. Younger people in Çukurova cities and (to a lesser extent) in İskenderun tend to speak Turkish. Turkish spoken by Alawites is distinguished by Alawites and non-Alawites alike with its particular accents and vocabulary. Knowledge of Arabic alphabet is confined to religious leaders and men who had worked or studied in Arab countries.

Answer the above questions......


OK, ok. Cool down. Here is my answer:

Alevis
Alevi density in Turkey

Alevis are the biggest religion minority in Turkey. Nearly 15% - 25% of all Turkish population is in this group. They are mainly Turk but there are significant Kurd and Zaza populations who are Alevi
[/quote]
Alevi density.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minorities ... y#Alawites

Was my answer to your satisfaction your Excellency?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:49 pm

kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:Is this a joke? Alewites in Turkey are concentrated in Central Anatolia....


Alewites did you say? I was referring to the Alevis.

Alawites in Turkey

The exact number of Alawites in Turkey is unknown, but there were 185 000 Alawites in 1970.[66] As Muslims, they are not recorded separately from Sunnis in ID registration. In the 1965 census (the last Turkish census where informants were asked their mother tongue), 180,000 people in the three provinces declared their mother tongue as Arabic. However, Arabic-speaking Sunni and Christian people are also included in this figure.
Alawites traditionally speak the same dialect of Levantine Arabic with Syrian Alawites. Arabic is best preserved in rural communities and Samandağ. Younger people in Çukurova cities and (to a lesser extent) in İskenderun tend to speak Turkish. Turkish spoken by Alawites is distinguished by Alawites and non-Alawites alike with its particular accents and vocabulary. Knowledge of Arabic alphabet is confined to religious leaders and men who had worked or studied in Arab countries.

Answer the above questions......


OK, ok. Cool down. Here is my answer:

Alevis
Alevi density in Turkey

Alevis are the biggest religion minority in Turkey. Nearly 15% - 25% of all Turkish population is in this group. They are mainly Turk but there are significant Kurd and Zaza populations who are Alevi

Alevi density.png

[/quote]

They are mainly Turk ..................END OF DISCUSSION and time for you to shut up.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:47 pm

kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?


Simple. They support Kemalism hoping that islamism will not prevail in Turkey fearing, in such a case, the worst for their minority. Just read the turkish press to see how Erdogan speaks publicly about them and their worship places. Besides, if you are a minority in a country YOU HAVE to support one political trend or the other. Don't you? Even the remaining Greeks of Constantinople and the Armenians and the Kurds of Turkey vote for turkish political parties. Does that make them Turks?


How come the leader of Ataturk's party is an Alewite then???? If they are a different ethnic group, how come millions of Turkish Sunnis vote for this party? No need to mention CHP is quite nationalistic. I live in Turkey and I haven't met a single Alewite saying 'I am not Turkish but I am Alawite.` You are an outsider without having met a single Alewite and you claim they are not Turks!! Show us proof or shut up.
See my posts and my links again. I said, or rather, my linlks showed, they are reestablishing their status moving towards appearing themselves to be ont only a religious but also an ethnic minority. See above my links to avoid reposting them.
As for them declaing of being or not being Turkish, well. They already have enough troubles with the Turks as it is, especially in the country. Would you expect individuals to risk saying something else? In Turkey of all places?


In my experience, the Alevis of Turkey consider themselves to be Turkish ... if anything, they consider their own faith to be closer to true Turkish values.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:21 pm

...again, the word Bicommunal, (and now, Bizonal) come to mind. define State, define Nation; define Individual, define Person. obviously if "Turks" make it impossible to demonstrate these qualities in Cyprus, they will sign the Turkish State's death warrant. obviously, as a country, Turkey is not a melting pot, and as it is, it can hardly be called a mosaic. the dismissive behaviour we see from "Turks" is only based on a balance of power which stays the same, of course things do not remain unchanging; (the fifty years of failed Turkish Foreign Policy; Annan Plan). no solution: split up Cyprus, split up Turkey.
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