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TCs voted YES - why?

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Postby metecyp » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:11 pm

turkcyp wrote:But Status quo is better than some alternativas that GCs are suggestion. As simple as that. You may think we are as desperate, but I respectfully disagree. Things are getting better everyday.

I agree the current situation is better than, say, Enosis but if you make a list of possible solutions to the Cyprus problem and rank them according to how "good" they are according to TCs, I don't think that the status quo will rank high on that list.

I don't agree that things are getting better. Things are getting worse for TCs and GCs. For example, take the construction boom in Kyrenia as an example. Do you think it's a good thing? Yes, it might be good for some TC constructors and their illegal Turkish workers and it might be good for some Europeans buying the properties. But it's not good for TCs and GCs in general, especially it's not good for a solution. The issue of land is complicated as it is, and this is complicating the issue even further by introducing Europeans. This is just an example of why time is not working for us (that is if you don't believe that partition is a solution)
But they fail to realize that Turkey does not equate to TCs. They firmly belive that they can bypass us and find a sloution with Turkey, by using their EU membership as a wild card. You and I know that that is not the case.

You know that no matter what kind of a solution is found in Cyprus, it has to be approved by Turkey. At the moment, TCs cannot stand against Turkey for various reasons. Yes, I don't appreciate that GCs are bypassing TCs but at the same time, I don't believe that Turkey will ever agree on a solution that TCs will not agree.

I'll repeat again. If you really believe a bicommunal bizonal federation then you have to accept that the current situation both in the north and in the south works directly against that idea. It's as simple as that.
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Postby turkcyp » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:31 pm

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Postby metecyp » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:52 pm

turkcyp wrote:Also for example I do not belive that construiction boom in the north is a bad thing. Since when real estate development has been a bad thing. Are you one of those people that belive that selling a piece of land to foreigners is bad.

You totally miss the point here. I have no problem with the real estate development on TC owned land whatsoever. I have no problem with foreigners buying land from the owners of the land either. But I have a problem with creating a future on a piece of land whose ownership is not clear. I don't want to see my country prosper on somebody else's loss.
turkcyp wrote:But it is not making harder for us.It is making harder for GCs. So it is GCs that should act fast and come up with proposals that will change the Annan plan, or propose other solutions. Not us.

Yes, GCs need to propose other solutions if they don't like the Annan plan. But a GC does not lose his/her previous land/house just because he/she said "No" to the plan. TC's saying "Yes" to the plan does not justify selling someone else's land and making a profit from it. This is simple logic, I'm not saying anything complicated. I don't believe that GCs will ever donate the land to us. They have no reason to do so. Therefore, we have to sit down and solve this problem together. So it's not just their problem but our problem as well.
turkcyp wrote:Remember this time passage makes even the most illegal act legal after some time. If they claim that we sitting on these GC properties illegal then they should act quickly because everytime that passes is in our favor, I believe.

Is that what you want? You want to justify illegality by passage of time? I don't know what you think but I don't want to build my future on someone else's loss. Until TCs and GCs sit together and decide who gets what, I won't consider former GC lands/houses as mine.
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Postby turkcyp » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:04 pm

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Postby Piratis » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:39 am

turkcyp, it is very obvious that your aim is to "laundry" what you stole from us.

Even if we agree on right or not, there will not be a Cyprus solution 50years down the road (50 is just an example, it can be 1, 10, 100 years). It will be solved by Status Quo becaming accpeted solution.


Well, there are other ways to "solve" problems that might be out of the question now, but in 50 or 100 years it can be different. (you know the ways - and as far as I understand you approve them).

So, do you want to find a truly win-win solution? (The Annan plan was definitely not it. If it was we would have voted "yes"). Or you want us to make it as hard for you as possible until "our turn" will come?
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Postby -mikkie2- » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:56 am

Turkcyp,

The passage of time is not working in your favour at all. The passage of time will see the disapearance of the TC's from Cyprus.

If the TC's want recognition they will have to pay a price. The legal aspect will still be kept alive.

A case in the ECHR may enlighten you - a Turkish family that had their land in Thesaloniki expropriated in 1925 by the then Greek government won their case in the ECHR last year to regain their land and property. Now that is a 80 year gap.

A case is also being taken to the British courts against a British couple that have built a house on stolen land.

So, if you think the passage of time will make you legal, then think again!
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Postby turkcyp » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:35 pm

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Postby -mikkie2- » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:35 am

turkcyp,

you say

And now, you are telling me you are a thief. Quite honestly, and it really does not bother me at all.


Well, fine. Don't bother for caring about what happens to our homeland. A non nationalist but an individualist. A selfish one at that.

For me on the personal level what happened to me is not fair to me as well. My family have received actually half of the land they have left at the south side. I have moved here, and built my own house from scrathc on an empty land, in Piratis terms "stolen land". In the mean time RoC have expropriated my house in the south, and right now there is no house for me in south side. Let alone the, vineyards that we used to have, is in the worst condition, that is not farmable after 30 years. No body have invested in them, like I have invested on some fellow GC land.


Well if you cared to bother about your land in the south then why don't you do something about it? Why don't you take your case to the court like other TC's have done? Is it becasue you can't be bothered?

Nobody has invested in your land because they don't own it. Its quite simple. If your house has been expropriated then take your complaint to the government. They are obliged to give you equivalent land in return. But for sure, you will do that once what you have been 'given' has been secured in your name.
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Postby turkcyp » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:24 am

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Postby brother » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:59 pm

My families properties were all torn down as well and when my parents went to the south there was nothing there just derelict land, as i always say the ROC is not prepared to pay for knocking homes down and it makes it legally impossible to win, even the Arif Mustafa trial is on hold and he fufilled all the obligations like living in the south for at least 6 months, to this end from what i can see the ROC still is doing double standards and not following the human rights charter at all, also may i add if the south was truely adhering to be european then they should lead by example, and show that they are a law abiding society and then a lot of tc will believe in your system, integrity and honesty(and before everyone takes a leap of the deep end, not insulting anyone)
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