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CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby Paphitis » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:19 am

Nice post The subaltern.

It does appear that Cyprus has been unfairly singled out by the do gooders whilst the damage done by even the pet moggy in UK and Western Europe is ignored even though it is a vastly bigger problem.

But still, more work needs to be done to protect the birds in Cyprus as well, because too many are killed in my opinion and if we keep that up, it will be a disaster for the island. There won't be any extinctions, but bird populations on the island will deplete, and this must be avoided.

It appears that the UK and Western Europe have a lot more work to do that Cyprus does.
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:03 am

welcome subaltern, something to think about; interesting, thank-you.
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby erolz66 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:41 am

All I see is the same old denial, deflection and cries off 'yes but other are worse' as if this is some kind of propaganda exercise and not an environmental issue.

From the very start we have 'the Cypriot tradition' line. This is just bullshit. The means and extent of bird trapping in Cyprus in the late 20th century onwards bears no relation to 'traditional bird trapping'. Who does it, how they do it and the extent to which they do it are all massively different from 'tradition'.

As for "19 million birds killed every year in hunting estates in Britain alone" this is just irrelevant distraction. This does not involve the indiscriminate killing of birds including species under threat of disappearing. The birds shot on hunting estates in Britain are essentially farmed and managed by those estates and involve species that are not under threat of extinction.

It is just a fact that in certain areas those that control the illegal bird trapping in those areas are the same people that control just about all illegal activities in those same areas, be it prostitution, drugs, gambling or any other number of profitable illegal activities. Pointing this out is not about 'besmirching Cypriots' its about stating the truth to make the point about who concerted effort to reduce such activities would primarily effect.

As for the 'but other factors do way more damage' this again is just classic distraction. The more these other factors effect endangered species the MORE important it is to reduce the damage from illegal bird trapping, not less. Reducing illegal bird trapping, unlike deaths from pets or damage from increasing environment erosion, is easily achievable and has almost no downside. All it would require in reality is a shift in public opinion. However if this thread is anything to go by that is something evidently beyond us as Cypriots. We would seemingly prefer to deny, distract and bemoan how 'unfair' everyone else is against us, for such is seemingly easier than having to deal with the idea that we are Cypriot and we are not beyond reproach simply by being Cypriot.
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:04 pm

The subaltern wrote:Cyprus, in the last 20 years or so, has been singled out for severe criticism by individuals with an axe to grind and by bird lobbies purportedly interested in saving birds. Bird trapping and bird eating was identified as a “barbaric” habit that ought to be stamped out by force, if need be, in order to save the birds of Europe from extinction.
How true is the assertion that the Cypriot tradition contributes if at all to the birds’ demise?
Lets then compare the Cypriot tradition with what goes on in Europe. Figures here are important since figure of birds killed are constantly been reported in order to prove that the Cypriots are indeed killing birds in large number.

The highest ever figure of birds killed in Cyprus was 20 million, reported by two Swedish reporters, Mr Lars Lindell and Anders Wirdheim in May 2001 in “ Ver Vegelwaerld” an ornithological magazine under the headline Killing fields, where it was stated that “every year, roughly 20 million birds are killed in Cyprus. The majority of these birds are caught in mist nets, traps, (?) or with limesticks.”
The EU got on the numbers game and in its Standing Committee, 21st meating Strasbourg, 26-30 November 2001 reported that “12.6 million birds are caught each year. This is in addition to more than 7 million birds that are illegally shot” making the total 20 million the same as per the Swedish report. Please note the above figures were reported during the Cyprus accession negotiations to join the EU! Smell a rat anywhere?
After Cyprus joined the EU figures of birds killed started oscillating wildly
from hundreds of thousands to millions, depending to where you happened to look. Take your pick and make your case. The literature makes a fascinating read.
However, BirdLife Cyprus in its advert in the Phileleftheros newspaper, this time in Greek rather than its usual English communications, reported on 8th of June 2013 that “hundreds of thousands of birds killed every year…” etc Apart from numbers of birds killed in the various publications you will also find interesting descriptions attached to the people doing the bird trapping eg Mafiosi, criminals, barbarians and the like thus reinforcing the image of Cyprus they have created.
This is the Cyprus situation. Let’s now compare the Cypriot bird death toll to the Western European one.

19 million birds killed every year in hunting estates in Britain alone

55 million birds a year are killed by cats in Britain and 50 million in Germany; Two countries where the appropriate research was carried out. In the USA 1.4-3.7 BILLION birds are killed by cats every year (Smithsonian Institute)

40 million starlings disappeared from the EU, including Britain since 1980, plus 300 million farmland birds lost from Europe over the same period.

20 million birds a year are killed by wind turbines in Spain alone.

While Jeff Kirby on bird “mortality owing to artificial structures” mentions “ Klen (2009) reports on a vast and growing amount of evidence supporting the interpretation that, except for habitat destruction, collusion with clear and reflective sheet glass and plastic cause deaths of more birds than any other human-related avian mortality factor. From published estimates, an upper level of 1 billion annual kills in the USA is likely conservative; the worldwide toll is expected to be in billions” Of course most kills will occur in the civilised world since the high-rise buildings and skyscrapers are mostly found in the developed world.

These are just some numbers of birds killed in Europe. Not included are birds killed as a result of collusions on power lines, birds killed due to poisoning by farmers, due to starvation as a result of the depletion of food sources etc.

Suppose now the Cypriots stop hunting and eating birds tomorrow. Would this have an effect on the birds’ survival? Far from it; in fact the death toll will be increasing.
Under the heading “almost half of Europe’s bird species at risk” Mr Mark Avery, conservation director of the RSPB fears that “the great danger is that we will now export the intensive agriculture to Eastern Europe destroying their wild life. (The Guardian Newspaper) Unless of course the civilised Europeans intervene to keep the rest of the world under developed in order to save the birds.

An interesting environmentally friendly method of bird management was practised in Nigeria where human scarers, women and children, were employed in scaring birds off farms instead of poisoning them. “However, a resent trend of development in the country, is now increasingly difficult to get human scarers . All the youths are now been compelled to go to school… Also, with in the last few years the cost of labour has risen by 400% so that to employ hands for scaring has become very expensive. Bird trapping is not very common, though attempts are just made to improve both local and imported traps to suit the habitat and size of the local species” (M. Akande. Proceedings of the 8th vertebrate pest conference 1975 University of Nebraska)

Literature is full of the achievements of the Western Europeans in the field of animal and avian destruction from the 17th century to today. Wild animal and bird exploitation for gain has brought some species to extinction and others to the brink of collapse yet the same people have the audacity to accuse others practising a tradition that goes back to the 5th century BC that had no effect on the species been hunted ie blackcap. In fact, according to BirdLife international the numbers of blackcaps in Europe are increasing.
Hypocrisy, a holier than though attitude with a large dose of propaganda and downright lies, keeps the ambelopoulia on the agenda and the Cypriots on the defensive.


Refreshingly clear evaluation of ecological facts and political menace. Thank you for a great read. :)
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby Flying Horse » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:49 pm

Very interesting indeed. I knew the common moggy killed rather a sum of birds, but when you read its such a high volume.... Mister Tibbs really is a bad kitty!

Ironically, I've just read this article this morning. UK bases on Cyprus are bird trapping hot spots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25433008
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:24 pm

erolz66 wrote:All I see is the same old denial, deflection and cries off 'yes but other are worse' as if this is some kind of propaganda exercise and not an environmental issue.

From the very start we have 'the Cypriot tradition' line. This is just bullshit. The means and extent of bird trapping in Cyprus in the late 20th century onwards bears no relation to 'traditional bird trapping'. Who does it, how they do it and the extent to which they do it are all massively different from 'tradition'.

As for "19 million birds killed every year in hunting estates in Britain alone" this is just irrelevant distraction. This does not involve the indiscriminate killing of birds including species under threat of disappearing. The birds shot on hunting estates in Britain are essentially farmed and managed by those estates and involve species that are not under threat of extinction.

It is just a fact that in certain areas those that control the illegal bird trapping in those areas are the same people that control just about all illegal activities in those same areas, be it prostitution, drugs, gambling or any other number of profitable illegal activities. Pointing this out is not about 'besmirching Cypriots' its about stating the truth to make the point about who concerted effort to reduce such activities would primarily effect.

As for the 'but other factors do way more damage' this again is just classic distraction. The more these other factors effect endangered species the MORE important it is to reduce the damage from illegal bird trapping, not less. Reducing illegal bird trapping, unlike deaths from pets or damage from increasing environment erosion, is easily achievable and has almost no downside. All it would require in reality is a shift in public opinion. However if this thread is anything to go by that is something evidently beyond us as Cypriots. We would seemingly prefer to deny, distract and bemoan how 'unfair' everyone else is against us, for such is seemingly easier than having to deal with the idea that we are Cypriot and we are not beyond reproach simply by being Cypriot.


indeed, very well said.

...all the more reason to have a Republic, even if, in a Bicommunal Cyprus, there would exist a Greek Constituency, and a Turkish Constituency, (and others). the issue are the birds in this case, the environment, and our Heritance, it is not a "Greek" issue, or a "Turkish" issue.
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:06 pm

Flying Horse wrote:Very interesting indeed. I knew the common moggy killed rather a sum of birds, but when you read its such a high volume.... Mister Tibbs really is a bad kitty!

Ironically, I've just read this article this morning. UK bases on Cyprus are bird trapping hot spots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25433008


I can understand why it was included as a note in Subaltern's post, but before we go too far towards blaming the common moggy for the massive reduction in bird numbers in the UK; I would just like to add that this excuse is one of those distraction devices used by the building industry and farmers who are the ones actually responsible for destroying trees and other habitats that these birds depend upon.

But, that's an interesting bit of news about the Bases ...
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby Archimedes » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:34 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Flying Horse wrote:Very interesting indeed. I knew the common moggy killed rather a sum of birds, but when you read its such a high volume.... Mister Tibbs really is a bad kitty!

Ironically, I've just read this article this morning. UK bases on Cyprus are bird trapping hot spots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25433008


I can understand why it was included as a note in Subaltern's post, but before we go too far towards blaming the common moggy for the massive reduction in bird numbers in the UK; I would just like to add that this excuse is one of those distraction devices used by the building industry and farmers who are the ones actually responsible for destroying trees and other habitats that these birds depend upon.

But, that's an interesting bit of news about the Bases ...


Explains why Milo (the forum cat) is so fat. :wink:
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby Archimedes » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:43 pm

miltiades wrote:As a young boy growing up in Cyprus I partook in cruelty to animals, birds and all living things apart from humans.

I knew no better and behaved as all my piers did, neither the schools nor the church instilled in us kids the sanctity of animal life, the beauty of birds singing, little kittens and puppies, the fact that they too shared this planet with us and had feelings not dissimilar to our own, they felt pain, fear and joy at getting something to eat.

Much has changed since the 50s, thanks mainly to Brits and Charlies, animal welfare has improved and Cypriots are more aware of the feelings of animals than in years gone by.

On my recent visit to Limassol, I visited my late wifes grave, at the entrance of the cemetery in Ayios Athanasios there exists a large number of abandoned cats, in their hundreds, a sad sight. Some are run over by visiting cars oblivious to the need to exercise care in driving at the entrance, the cats run to greet every car hoping for some food.

After a family dinner we were left with an abundance of meat, chicken, pork, sheftalies, kioftedes and much more.

I cut it all up and on my visit to the cemetery the following morning I distributed the food to the cats making sure that little kittens also received their share. My other third and her daughter who absolutely adore cats were with me making sure that the little ones had some leftovers.

An old boy was coming out of the the cemetery entrance and called out to me.
" O KOSMOS PINA CHE ESI TAIZIS TOUS KATTOUS " (People are starving and you are feeding the cats )

Not one to take easily to unwarranted reprimands I approached the old boy and politely asked if he believed in God
Veveos he replied , I don't, I responded, but I believe in the sanctity of all life and since you believe in God therefore you must also believe that all life was created by Him.He turned and got into his car not saying a word just shaking his head.

Such comments typify the absence in some Cypriots of the need to care for animals.

As I was getting into my car to drive away, a car pulled up next to me and an elderly couple of Cypriots got out carrying bags. The lady approached me and asked if I was the one that put the food for the cats, getting ready to rebuff her as well, I listened as she politely asked if next time I come with food I put it on the pavements as to avoid having cats in the concourse where visiting cars might run them over.

Of course I said, I didn't think of this.

I watched as she and her man begun feeding the cats from the contents of their bags. I approached and told her that what she was doing was extremely kind, thank you she said, we have been doing this for over 20 years since we came back to Cyprus from the UK....

They originated from the Famagusta region.


This is just rubbish! :evil: We have many animals posting on this forum, more than humans. :mrgreen:
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Re: CYPRIOT'S ATTITUDE TO ANIMALS

Postby The subaltern » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:52 pm

Flying Horse wrote:UK bases on Cyprus are bird trapping hot spots.


You have touched upon a very important area i.e. "bird trapping hot spots"!
That’s the propaganda we hear from the bird lobby: CABS, BirdLife Cyprus etc.
The bases are no hotter than any other trapping area yet the bird lobby likes to portray them as though they are. In fact, is continuously calling for action against the trappers by the bases authorities. Their calls have been answered several times by various MPs in British parliament on 2001, 2008, 2009 and 2012.
The minister of defence reassures everyone that the British bases are doing what they can; having meetings with the Cyprus government, raising the matter in the EU and combating the trapping in the bases using their own police force ( for more see Hanzard)
In a clever way, by using the bird lobby’s complaints are killing two birds with one stone; in effect reasserting their authority over the bases and at the same time reminding people, in case they forget, of their sovereignty over this part of Cyprus and to the trappers that they are operating in a foreign land.
A potentially explosive situation could develop with unforeseen consequences. The British though been the masters of diplomacy and hypocrisy and behind the scenes arm twisting, will no doubt take advantage of the bird protection calls if and when there are potential gains to be made.

In fact the Brits have just done that last June. Invoking their sovereign right on the pretext of protecting fish, dropped concrete blocks in Gibraltar thus depriving the Spanish of their fishing rights and at the same time reminding Spain who is the boss around here and backed their actions by sending the fleet! What are the chances of Britain doing the same in Cyprus in order to protect the birds? Very high indeed. That’s the reason the bird lobby is calling Britain to rise to her responsibilities.
The bird lobbies are not really amateur practitioners interested in saving birds but versed professionals well financed and able to exploit political situations in order to promote western thought and interests.
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