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A Cyprus solution would probably never work?

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Piratis » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:58 am

I agree with Sotos.

They decide what constitution we will have and then they decide on the "solution" plans.

If they had just let us alone to take decisions in a democratic way for our own country everything would have worked just fine. Then if what we have created was in any way worst in terms of democracy, human rights etc compared to their own country they would have the right to blame us.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:41 pm

The Cypriot way easy cop out blame everyone but us, makes us feel good. If we were capable then we would have met and sorted it out together, why dont we do that now??? we are incapable end of story.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:12 pm

Were we allowed to do that? We were under the colonialists and then they imposed a constitution on us, which it failed to function properly. Then Turkey invaded Cyprus (again a foreign intervention), and now they are trying to force their solution on us again.

So they were the ones making all the important decision for us. Did we tell them what constitution they should have and how they should run their own country??

If those foreigners instead of imposing their wishes on us, they simply allowed democracy to function as it should, non of these problems would have ever existed and Cyprus would be another regular country just like UK, France, USA etc.

we are incapable end of story.

Were very capable. The problem is that part of the population, the TC minority, is unwilling, because they do not accept the norms that exist in every other country in the world.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:46 pm

Dream on Piratis, if we were capable we would have met over the last 2 years to show the world that we can sort our own problems out.
What have we Cypriots done, bickered and tried to score point off each other, so imature and shows that we a re further away from any solution than we have ever been.
We deserve partition and the current status quo as we would mess up a united Cyprus and then find someone else to blame but ourselves.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:03 am

Dream on Piratis, if we were capable we would have met over the last 2 years to show the world that we can sort our own problems out.

Do you want to sort the problems? Do you want to end the illegality? Do you want the 200.000 refugees to be allowed to return to their homes? Do you want the human rights violations to stop??

What have we Cypriots done, bickered and tried to score point off each other, so imature and shows that we a re further away from any solution than we have ever been.
We deserve partition and the current status quo as we would mess up a united Cyprus and then find someone else to blame but ourselves.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh, I see, so we Cypriots should blame ourselves, but lets punish Greek Cypriots by legalizing the violations of human rights against them and lets reward Turkish Cypriots by allowing them to legally have the land they stole. How come if both sides are to blame, only the GCs have to be punished according to you?????

So Viewpoint you have to decide: Do you put all the blame on others? Or do you accept part of the blame? If it is the second, then you should tell us what your punishment should be for your part of the blame, and not asking for rewards.

What you deserve is not partition which is your dream. You definitely do not deserve that and you are definitely not going to get it.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:36 am

Piratis
Do you want to sort the problems? Do you want to end the illegality? Do you want the 200.000 refugees to be allowed to return to their homes? Do you want the human rights violations to stop??


Of course I want to sort out the problems but if the person on the opposite sied of the table does not want to compromise or accept my demands as well then the only alternative we are left with is recognized partition as we are not commited and will never be commited to living together as a united island. The reasons we have discussed over and over again, why force a marriage that we both know will end in a messy divorce as time passes more and more Cypriots will realize this fact.

Oh, I see, so we Cypriots should blame ourselves, but lets punish Greek Cypriots by legalizing the violations of human rights against them and lets reward Turkish Cypriots by allowing them to legally have the land they stole. How come if both sides are to blame, only the GCs have to be punished according to you?????


You love to paint the GCs as the only side that suffered or is suffering, well take your sun glasses off and take a good look around, you have wallowed in recognition using all its benefits to the maximum. If we were both to blame then why am I still suffering under isolation, why am i denied the basic rights that all other citizens of the world have? this is the price (or punishment as you call it) TCs pay. So get off your high horse and come to terms with the fact that you have recognition and wealth and we have land and our own unrecognized country.

What you deserve is not partition which is your dream. You definitely do not deserve that and you are definitely not going to get it.


You know my Viewpoint Piratis I have repeated it enough times, I no longer have faith especially after the referendum in either side wanting to find a solution and the actions of both sides over the past 2 years has proved my point. But I already have what u say I will never have which is partition but what i dont have is recognition, appears we all have a cross to bear.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:02 am

Of course I want to sort out the problems but if the person on the opposite sied of the table does not want to compromise or accept my demands as well then the only alternative we are left with is recognized partition


Oh, so it is either we accept your demands, or you get what you want by force? Is this what you are saying?
And "coincidentally" this demands of yours are the ones that violate our basic human rights.
How come and we don't have any demands that violate any of your human rights and all we ask for is human rights and legality?

The reasons we have discussed over and over again, why force a marriage that we both know will end in a messy divorce as time passes more and more Cypriots will realize this fact.

It is not about a marriage here. You stole our land and you have to give it back. We never asked from you to get married. We just happen to live in the same place and we have to get used to it in this way. If you don't like it move out. Our land does not belong to you to make it "divorce" from us.

You love to paint the GCs as the only side that suffered or is suffering

Where did i do that???

If we were both to blame then why am I still suffering under isolation, why am i denied the basic rights that all other citizens of the world have? this is the price (or punishment as you call it) TCs pay.

And the punishment the GCs pay is that they have 200.000 people (more than your whole population) that are ethnically cleansed from their land and are not allowed to return. Also the 18% of TCs illegally occupy 36% of the land which includes 60% of the natural resources. This is the price we pay.

And why both TCs and GCs pay these? Because of the illegal occupation that you insist to maintain.

And now what you want is that TCs stop paying any price, while the GCs continue to pay this price indefinitely. This is what you want?
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Postby zan » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:45 am

Piratis you too might want to educate your self on who has been done the most wrong. Take a look at Kifeas's poll and if you can take it read on.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:37 am

Piratis
Oh, so it is either we accept your demands, or you get what you want by force? Is this what you are saying?
And "coincidentally" this demands of yours are the ones that violate our basic human rights.
How come and we don't have any demands that violate any of your human rights and all we ask for is human rights and legality?


What I am saying and you are doing your utmost not to understand or twist is the fact you have control of "Cyprus" you have the recognition and respresentation you desire, you rule alone without any interference from our community, isnt this what you wanted? well you have it. What you dont have is in your opinion a fair share of the land, all your arguements revolve around this. Imo if this was taken out of the equation you would not want to unite with TCs., you are so transparent on this issue.
When the "Roc" allows everyone one of its population a right to vote then you can talk to me about human rights and legality, get your own house in order first. This legality you keep harping on about who caused it? and why does it continue?? think hard and you may find the answers.

It is not about a marriage here. You stole our land and you have to give it back. We never asked from you to get married. We just happen to live in the same place and we have to get used to it in this way. If you don't like it move out. Our land does not belong to you to make it "divorce" from us


Wont reunification be a forced marriage? we live in the same place now but in seperate countiries, do you ahve to put up with me or me with you? do we live peacefully?? are we killing one another??

And the punishment the GCs pay is that they have 200.000 people (more than your whole population) that are ethnically cleansed from their land and are not allowed to return. Also the 18% of TCs illegally occupy 36% of the land which includes 60% of the natural resources. This is the price we pay.


Piratis do you ever think that this may be the price you have already paid for your previous actions towards our community, you can argue until you are blue in the face about its enormity but that does not change much you are now only left with the right to clutch at straws and pursue which ever avenue you feel will bring you results. We TCs have and are still paying the price by declaring the TRNC and being isolated from the world. We to have the right to persue any avenues we feel with bring us results or is that just a one way street? Will these things change in the future your guess is as good as mine but if we take into account our past track record probably not.

And why both TCs and GCs pay these? Because of the illegal occupation that you insist to maintain.


Who got us all in this mess? think of it that way....then you have your answer.

And now what you want is that TCs stop paying any price, while the GCs continue to pay this price indefinitely. This is what you want?


Who can get us out of this mess? and why arent they doing it?

I have told you before that what I want is an end to the Cyprus issue once and for all but I honestly do not believe we can or are capable of creating a united island. So the only alternative would be a recognized partition for land solution. Then you would not have to share anything with me and I would not have to live in fear of being dominated by a larger GC community in my own country, whos true intentions I have historical reason to doubt.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:30 pm

What I am saying and you are doing your utmost not to understand or twist is the fact you have control of "Cyprus" you have the recognition and respresentation you desire, you rule alone without any interference from our community, isnt this what you wanted?


No. What we want is nothing more and nothing less than what is legal and respects all of our and your human rights. This is not what we have today because you insist on the illegal occupation of 1/3rd of Cyprus.

What you dont have is in your opinion a fair share of the land, all your arguements revolve around this. Imo if this was taken out of the equation you would not want to unite with TCs., you are so transparent on this issue.

What we don't have is legality and respect of human rights.
What does it mean "unite with TCs"?? I don't want to unite with anybody, my family is complete. What I demand is that my human and democratic rights are respected. You are obligated to respect my rights the same way that I am obligated to respect yours. However you insist on illegality, and thats the problem.



When the "Roc" allows everyone one of its population a right to vote then you can talk to me about human rights and legality, get your own house in order first. This legality you keep harping on about who caused it? and why does it continue?? think hard and you may find the answers.

The answer is the Turkish occupation. Do you accept legality? YES or NO. When you do not accept the return to legality then how can you complain that legality does not exist. It would exist if you accepted it

Wont reunification be a forced marriage? we live in the same place now but in separate countiries, do you ahve to put up with me or me with you? do we live peacefully?? are we killing one another??

No, unification will be liberation from the foreign occupation and respect of human rights of all Cypriots. We do not live in separate countries. There is only one country part of which is under foreign occupation with your support.

Piratis do you ever think that this may be the price you have already paid for your previous actions towards our community

So if this is our punishment, then what should your punishment be for the 100 times worst actions that you performed against our community?? Why you think GCs should be the ones punished and TCs the ones rewarded?

We TCs have and are still paying the price by declaring the TRNC and being isolated from the world. We to have the right to persue any avenues we feel with bring us results or is that just a one way street?

No you don't have the right to to do anything illegal and against human rights and as you know very well, both the occupation and the pseudo "TRNC" are illegal. Can you do it even if you don't have the right? Of course you can, just like all the other criminals that commit crimes.

Who got us all in this mess? think of it that way....then you have your answer.

Many factors contributed to this mess. The main one was the Cypriots were never allowed to choose in a democratic way their own destiny. Or are you going to blame everything on GCs by remembering 1 decade and forgetting 4 centuries?

Who can get us out of this mess? and why arent they doing it?

You can stop this mess by stopping the illegalities. Or the only way that you will stop the illegalities is if you are forced to do it? Is this what you mean?

I have told you before that what I want is an end to the Cyprus issue once and for all

Everybody wants an end to the Cyprus issue. The problem is that you do not want this "end" to be the one that will allow the refugees to return to their homes, and human rights of everybody be respected without racial discriminations.
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