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TRNC Flag Subject

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby erolz » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:18 pm

Piratis wrote:The reason I have a problem with this is that many Turkish Cypriots see the federal state as just a stepping stone to partition.


and fears of TC that GC see a federal state as a stepping stone to a unitary state where GC numerical majority rules and the TC community exists as a political minority and at the whim and will of the GC majority in its own country?
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Postby metecyp » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:04 pm

and fears of TC that GC see a federal state as a stepping stone to a unitary state where GC numerical majority rules and the TC community exists as a political minority and at the whim and will of the GC majority in its own country

There are fears on both sides simply because there is no trust. I try really hard to understand fears of GCs but I don't see the same response from most of them. Especially in this forum, TCs fears are portrayed as "excuses" or "unfounded irrational thoughts due to intense brainwashing". There is no way forward if we don't start understanding each other.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:07 pm

There are fears on both sides simply because there is no trust. I try really hard to understand fears of GCs but I don't see the same response from most of them. Especially in this forum, TCs fears are portrayed as "excuses" or "unfounded irrational thoughts due to intense brainwashing". There is no way forward if we don't start understanding each other.


One thing is to have fears and another thing to use those fears as an excuse to achieve something that is undemocratic and against human rights.
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Postby metecyp » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:09 am

One thing is to have fears and another thing to use those fears as an excuse to achieve something that is undemocratic and against human rights.

This is what I mean. Again, TC fears are portrayed as excuses to achieve something else. You think that way because you don't trust TCs. No TC (maybe except Denktas) is trying to achieve something undemocratic or against human rights. TC fears cannot be dismissed because they might result in something undemocratic for a while. How are you going to address those fears without some extra assurances?
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Postby Piratis » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:32 am

This is what I mean. Again, TC fears are portrayed as excuses to achieve something else. You think that way because you don't trust TCs.


I am not saying that the fears are unexcused. What I am saying is that those fears can be accommodated in ways that will not go against democracy and basic human rights. I am not saying this because I don't trust TCs, I would say the exact same thing to any group of people that claimed that the only way to accommodate their fears is to get 3 times the power that proportionately belongs to them.

TC fears cannot be dismissed because they might result in something undemocratic for a while. How are you going to address those fears without some extra assurances?


The problem is how will this undemocratic situation last only for a while? I already said several times that I do accept a transitional period that will be part of the signed agreement.
But if we sign something that will give to some people 4.5 time more voting power than the rest of the citizens, then do you really expect that those people will ever give up voluntarily this extra power?

I 100% agree that extra assurances should be made for all fears, and that a transitional period is necessary. Where I disagree is to sign an agreement that will convict Cyprus to be undemocratic forever with hopes that the constitution will somehow change in the future. This I believe will only lead to more disappointments and more conflicts.
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Postby brother » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:29 pm

Firstly i do not believe there will ever be conflict in cyprus again but for a united cyprus to work we can not have this policy of 4 times the voting power as it is not the right way whatever we do the way we start is the way we must continue so as we never come face to face with the problems of past.

Guarantees however will be required but i believe that is short term until we learn to trust our brothers and sisters again as the outside factors done a very good job on us.
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